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[Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Rejuvenate is a native homebrew platform for PS Vita. Read more about Rejuvenate here.
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hgoel0974
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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by hgoel0974 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:00 am

yifanlu wrote:[spoiler]For those who spew the competition bs, please read this: http://www.saurik.com/id/20

I've voiced my frustrations on the IRC and I'll do it here also. I am tired. I am tired of trying to herd the scene into one direction. I know it's arrogant to assume I am the shepard, but for the last three years, people have constantly asked me for help and then ignored what I said. They make me the leader--first unwillingly, then begrudgingly--and then refuse to be led. There's the shitshow that is OILIX (which hgoel0974 was a part of) where, after a member accused me of being unhelpful, I spent 6 months answering every question and telling all the members exactly how to hack the vita (step by step from looking at webkit to how to rop) and then nothing came out of it except a couple of blog posts to make some ad money.

Then there's the SDK. I've said for the last three years that if someone were to take the initiative and make an SDK, I would release an exploit to run homebrew. Nobody did anything. I had to write a detailed specification on how the SCE ELF worked in order to incite development. Then, when the SDK was made, 173210, who had no Vita development experience, ignored my tool implementation advice and decided to do things his way (although he did use my SCE ELF specs). Along the way, he ran into many problems that I anticipated when I wrote the recommendations, and psp2sdk took a lot longer to make than vita-toolchain. This is because 173210 saw this as a competition (telling me on Twitter that he wishes to "win" even though I said publicly that I don't care as long as an SDK is made). Sure, psp2sdk works and I recommend it to developers because 173210 is providing more support than I will; but a project based on shaky foundations will forever have to be patched and maintained.

I'm going to continue my arrogance: I've spent three years looking at the Vita, the file formats, and everything. I know how it works better than most people outside of sony. The code you see is based on hundreds of iterations and fixing failures. The competition does nothing but give the illusion that two projects are all "just code" whereas UVL was written with in depth knowledge of the Vita.

I've talked with xerpi about it before and we both agreed that a menu system based on a future UVL revision where UVL exports SCE ELF loading functions, and abstract away the details of a menu was the right way to go. That way, the menu (along with all the messy gui code) is its own ELF and the loader can be simple. However, either hgoel0974 didn't have this conversation that I had with xerpi or he did and ignored it. I welcome advice and debate, but that was not the case here.

So, like I said, I am tired of wasting my time trying to design something stable and lasting and seeing others just ignore me. Yes, that's whiny and yes that's being over-dramatic, but I think the problem is not with the community, but with me: I care too much. I get too invested and I get disappointed when things don't go my way. Nobody is going to pick up UVL (even in the last three years) and instead start their own projects. Just like nobody picked up vita-toolchain. And I'm sure VitaDefiler will go into the wayside too. Because nobody wants to be just a "contributor," they like credits more than they like helping. And after it's all said and done, they'll tell you it's because they like "competition." Well Jay, you and I share this world.

Anyways, I think it's best for all of us that I leave with my demanding attitude. I'll try to finish homebrew menu exports for UVL and work with Netrix to get Unity for PSM working. Because I don't back away from my promises. I may also work on memory cleanup for UVL. But after that I'm leaving the scene. I am tired of all of this.

For any of you who were mentioned in the hello world: thanks. I've had a positive experience working with you no matter how grand or insignificant our time together was. My frustrations do not involve you.

So long, and thanks for all the fish![/spoiler]
I really don't see why you feel so inclined to just leave over something like this. It's not like this is about being the first to get menu support or anything, and there's nothing stopping you from integrating changes into your own work. However, no matter what you decide to do in the end, I'm not taking back a project I made not intending any harm simply because I didn't just modify UVL. As I said in my previous post, this way I get to do things how I want to do them and you get to do them the way you want.

I'd also like for you to be frank and make things clear. Are you leaving due to simply my release of VHL or is it many things adding up? I wouldn't want to be blamed for you leaving if it wasn't just my fault. I didn't come back to the scene just to get caught up in more drama, that was the reason I left in the first place.

Well, whatever you decide to do, good luck.
As for everyone else, can we please get this thread back on topic?
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yifanlu
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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by yifanlu » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:19 am

No, I'm not leaving because of this specifically. It's the general trend I've been seeing. And I don't intend to get you to stop working on your project; even if you do, that doesn't mean everything is all right. It's mostly for my own sanity--I am a control freak and I'm spending too much time trying to micromanage and not enough time hacking.
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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by King Clyde » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:25 am

Is there going to be an implementation of FTP or themes at some point?
Last edited by King Clyde on Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by fate6 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:29 am

yifanlu wrote:I am a control freak and I'm spending too much time trying to micromanage and not enough time hacking.
And there is the crux of our issue, Honestly why not just say fak it and just do whatever? Don't be the leader of the group and if others push it on you then tell them where they can stick those opinions.

Again just do whatever is fun cause the moment it stops being fun then it's a job and no one wants yet another one of those especially for how crappy this particular one pays.

Plus you are being a TN right now.... don't be a TN....

EDIT: I also should add that this is nothing like an app store of app stores since all homebrew should work with both plus both are open source so anyone is free to implement features from one to the other.
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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by yifanlu » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:39 am

If I'm being TN right now, expect me to be back in a couple of week :lol:

Seriously though, like I said, people have made me the leader. At first, I was against the idea, but later on I realized that the scene did lack a direction and as bad as I am at leading, there wasn't anyone better who's more willing. And aren't we in agreement here... it's not fun anymore, which is why I'm quitting...

EDIT: Btw, me quitting == after what I promised, I'm not going to work on these projects anymore and I'm no longer going to provide support and implementation advice for stuff. However, I'm still open to answering vita related questions and stuff.

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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by diliegrOS » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:24 am

Yifan Lu, I think you could see things from another point of view. You see, you don't need to be the leader for assignment. Leadership does not have to be a burden.

I will make an analogy, perhaps a bit silly, but I think it expresses the idea: For all products we interact with every day, we have the ability to choose between quality levels. There are tastes for everyone. For example, some people choose Beats earphones, others, more informed, choose Sennheiser. There are more brands, of course, and although nobody assigned Sennheiser as a leader, is a reference audio brand. Still, you'll see people on the street with Beats earphones on...

You are a reference of quality, you are leading from that point of view. Your specifications may will be followed by many and ignored by few, but time always ends up agreeing with what it's worth.

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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by hgoel0974 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:46 am

yifanlu wrote:If I'm being TN right now, expect me to be back in a couple of week :lol:

Seriously though, like I said, people have made me the leader. At first, I was against the idea, but later on I realized that the scene did lack a direction and as bad as I am at leading, there wasn't anyone better who's more willing. And aren't we in agreement here... it's not fun anymore, which is why I'm quitting...
I can understand the feeling then, I initially left because too much drama ruined the fun of hacking. Well, I wish you luck with what you intend to do next, and of course, if you decide to come back sometime, that would be great.
King Clyde wrote:Is there going to be an implementation of FTP or themes at some point?
There is FTP for the Vita and we can't make custom themes for livearea, and as for menus, GBOT is working on one and once I've got VHL up to a nice stable point, I'll be working on my own menu as well. Now whether or not these menu's will support custom themes is left to the developers (I can't say about my own since I haven't thought about it in that much detail yet)
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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by King Clyde » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:05 am

hgoel0974 wrote:
King Clyde wrote:Is there going to be an implementation of FTP or themes at some point?
There is FTP for the Vita and we can't make custom themes for livearea, and as for menus, GBOT is working on one and once I've got VHL up to a nice stable point, I'll be working on my own menu as well. Now whether or not these menu's will support custom themes is left to the developers (I can't say about my own since I haven't thought about it in that much detail yet)
Okay, thank you for your reply :)

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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by fate6 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:30 am

yifanlu wrote:EDIT: Btw, me quitting == after what I promised, I'm not going to work on these projects anymore and I'm no longer going to provide support and implementation advice for stuff. However, I'm still open to answering vita related questions and stuff.
Sounds more like retiring to me yifan . ;)
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Re: [Development thread] VHL : Vita Homebrew Loader

Post by Sakuryu » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:45 am

Works very nice, I'm quite happy things are chugging along at a nice pace :3 I remember back when we moved from stuff like ChikHEN to the full CFW on the psp, now we're moving from the PspEmu Exploits into Rejuvenate. We have our first steps done, we just need to keep working on it, moving forward, helping each other and making the scene what it truly can be and surpassing the psp once and for all!
~`~ Fly on Coldbird, Hope your future endeavors bring you to higher skies away from the scum that's polluted the new world. We'll miss you! ~'~

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