Bugs 0.10.1

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mickey_brown
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:32 am

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by mickey_brown »

Golgari Germination puts saproling tokens into play when I destroy my opponents creatures. Its only supposed to be for mine.
Psyringe
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by Psyringe »

mickey_brown wrote:Golgari Germination puts saproling tokens into play when I destroy my opponents creatures. Its only supposed to be for mine.
Thanks, fixed. The "inplay" in the card's rule needed to be changed to "myInplay" or "myBattlefield".
Rob
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:34 pm

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by Rob »

This is an AI bug, but I am wondering how significant it might be.

Having read about the decks competition I saw how you can pit two decks against each other by using the demo mode.
Very fun to watch, in doing so, you can see how the AI plays some cards. That is scary! ;)
I noticed that the AI, at times, fails to play cards it could legally play. I have witnessed this for various cards and
I have only seen it in a multi color deck. I was able to capture one example shown below.

If you look at the screen shot below, you can see the bottom player has all of his mana available and used none of it, so play passed to the top player. You can also see the bottom player has two cards in his hand (Juggernaut x 2) that he could have played but did not.

Eventually the cards will get played, but i cannot figure out what triggers them getting played. At one point I thought it had something to do with the color of the first mana (below it's red and there are only 3 red) but it seems there is more to it. For example if the AI plays another card, (IE Shock) it may then play the Juggernaut. It is hard for me to determine as I have no familiarity with the code.

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Psyringe
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by Psyringe »

I've seen that too. Now there is a bit of randomness built into the AI's decision, so it's working as designed if it sometimes (rarely) doesn't play a card it could and that would be useful, but - like you - I got the impression that there's something more going on, especially with multicolored decks.

I noticed that when I tested the Sliver AI deck. It's a 4-color deck, and one time it failed to play a card for five consecutive turns, even discarding creatures that it could have played in the process. Like you, I suspected that the color of the first land may have something to do with it (it was the only island in play, and the AI didn't have blue slivers either), but couldn't figure out what exactly was the issue.

Any further tests on this, especially finding a setup that reproducibly shows this behavior, would be very helpful.
Takieda
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:48 pm

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by Takieda »

Hope charm seems to be having difficulty. It works to give me life, or destroy a local enchantment, but it has yet to give a creature first strike, at least not the last game. There is a possibility it worked on a previous game, I remember some agitation when it seemed to not work but I couldn't remember if the other creature had first strike or not, BUT, the last game was definitively not working. I cast it on my Field Marshal, and another creature which had first strike killed it before it could do any damage.

I'll be doing more testing to see if it ever works, but I'm guessing not.
wololo
Site Admin
Posts: 3727
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:42 am
Location: Japan

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by wololo »

There's an awful bug in the way the AI plays its cards:
it first checks if the card has a "good" or "bad" effect.
When the card requires a target, "good" or "bad" will help the AI choose the target of the card. A spell with a good effect will be cast on its cards, a spell with a bad effect will be cast on your cards.

But some cards don't have any target. For example "Wrath of God". In that case, "bad" or "good" is used by the AI to decide if it should cast the spell now or not. In the case of Wrath of god, the computation basically says that the spell will have more chances to be cast ("Good" effect) if you have more creatures than the AI, and less chances to be cast ("bad") if you have less creatures than the AI.

Now, looking at juggernaut: it has two abilities:
mustattack
can't be blocked by walls

when checking if a card is good or bad, the AI checks only one ability (because when the system was coded, very few cards had more than 1 effect), the first one: mustattack
mustattack is considered as a "bad" thing. If juggernaut was a sorcery, the AI would therefore cast it on your creatures. But juggernaut is a creature with no target. So the AI assumes it is "bad" to play it since it is a card with disadvantages. Therefore, the probability to play it is extremely low.

This is OF COURSE a very bad way of computing things, since it leads to that kind of issue. You'll notice that because of this, spark Elemental gets cast often in Main Phase 2. Since it has less chances to be played in Phase 1(because it is considered as a "bad" card since it is destroyed at the end of the turn), this artifically increases the chances of it being played in phase 2, making the card entirely useless.

In other words, the AI strategy of computing a spell/abilities effects needs to be entirely rethought.
Rob
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:34 pm

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by Rob »

Psyringe wrote:Now there is a bit of randomness built into the AI's decision, so it's working as designed if it sometimes (rarely) doesn't play a card it could and that would be useful...
I should have menitoned that in the example i posted, the AI drew several lands in a row and never played the Juggernaut. Basically, it is the same expereince you described. The other interesting factor is that the card it did not play was an artifact, meaning the color of mana should have been completely irrelevent. Also there are no other cards in play so that might help on the debug side.

I'm going to make some small decks to see if I can reproduce it. Too bad I can only see the cards for the bottom player or it might be easier to track down.
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wololo
Site Admin
Posts: 3727
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:42 am
Location: Japan

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by wololo »

See my reply above yours which explains why the issue occurs, before you start testing ;)
Raphael_Carlo
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:55 am

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by Raphael_Carlo »

Rain of Filth's (USG)effect didn't last until end of turn but lasted in the whole game period.
Mirri the Cursed's (PLC)combat damage to a creature effect didn't trigger.
Tainted Field (TOR)doesn't seem to work right. I tapped it for white or black mana and it didn't give me anything even when I have a swamp in the field.
Reiver Demon's (MRD)effect when put into play from the hand didn't trigger.
mickey_brown
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:32 am

Re: Bugs 0.10.1

Post by mickey_brown »

Not sure what has been mentioned and what hasn't...
1.)When you click on your opponents graveyard (possibly yours as well. didn't try) pushing up and down will cause the cursor to move up and down on the playing field, while pushing left and right will go left and right in the graveyard. You can open/close your hand and have 2 cards being viewed at once on top of each other.
2.)As an interrupt for an enemies ability, I pulled a creature out of my graveyard. It then did not give me the chance to exit the graveyard menu (Once I selected the card to bring back, the ability was over so it went on with the enemy turn). I then went to interrupt something else the opponent did. Only problem was I couldn't do what I wanted to do, because the graveyard was still open. When I pushed "X" to exit the graveyard, it instead cancels me interrupting the opponent, preventing me from interrupting for the rest of the enemies turn. This is really annoying in one particular deck of mine.
3.)Vengeful dead damages its controller instead of the enemy. Basically killing me every time I use it, instead of the opponent.
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