Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

All about the shop and the way of improving it
paoZ
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:30 pm

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by paoZ »

Hi everyone,
how about we up the price of boosters to 900 credits and instead of talking about prices, we talk about :idea: PROBABILITY?
Even though boosters are more expensive, the probability of getting rares are like 15%EST while randomly refreshing through singles give the probability of getting rares are like 3%EST?
Also, to encourage people to buy boosters, this probability thing will also work if there are a lot of sets. Think, if you want a certain race that lies only in a single set, though singles are cheap, but you cant find 15 of them together as opposed to buying a booster, and after you refresh that set mught not even appear!
Looking at sets you see that getting a booster of 1set is 3/x (fraction) where getting a card of a set is 8/xy where y is the amount of cards in a set.
Just a thought but perhaps this would make the game more realistic as based on my experience, i get 2 rare aprox. every time i refresh.
baldersmashed
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by baldersmashed »

I believe the shop system would be greatly improved by simply being allowed to choose a set name that you have unlocked which brings up a dialog box. In the box, you would be presented with a list of 5 (give or take) cards from that set and the choice of a booster. The refreshing would come from exiting the set you have selected, taking you back to the the set selection screen and simply entering the set again.
I know this doesn't sound like a challenge to get the cards you want, but I am always working on a deck and find it frustrating when all I need is a single pyroclasm. With 42 sets of 50+ unlocked, reloading the shop's stock becomes a tedious process for almost an hour. I find other cards for other deck ideas that I want to build, but then I tend to run low on credits when my card becomes available after trying to get cards that I know I won't see again for an age.
Anybody agree with me here?

BTW, I know I can 'cheat' my cards into my collection, but I find it better to earn it. I'm not asking for easier access to the cards I want. Rather, I am looking for a happy medium that makes getting the cards I want more fun than hitting a square button for 30 mins. to an hour.
Dr.Solomat wrote:"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Wagics power level?"

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Psyringe
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:53 am

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by Psyringe »

There has been some discussion among the devs about this, though I don't know whether anybody is working directly on this right now.

Personally I'd prefer a different solution: Keep the shop as is (random selection of cards), but give the player a chance to win a card from the opponent#s deck if he utterly trashed it. This would allow players to work for a given card they want, by finding an AI deck that has that card, and then developing a strategy to counter and beat that specific deck thoroughly. I think that's an interesting strategic exercise ("How can I build a deck that will perform best against AI deck X?"), which then would be rewarded by a chance of getting a card you want.

But that's just an idea right now, I'm not currently working on it (and I don't know whether the other devs approve on it).
Disturbed.1.93
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:45 am

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by Disturbed.1.93 »

I think that is a good idea, winning a card from the AI, but would you chose the card? It sounded like that is the idea but that would be relatively 'easy' to get some really good cards that you want wouldn't it?
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baldersmashed
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by baldersmashed »

Disturbed.1.93 wrote:I think that is a good idea, winning a card from the AI, but would you choose the card? It sounded like that is the idea but that would be relatively 'easy' to get some really good cards that you want wouldn't it?
I agree that whether you choose or not would be important.

I don't agree, however, that 8 random singles pulled from 50+ sets that each have a card pool of 30 to 200+ cards is a good way to go. I find myself wasting credits on boosters when I don't see the card after an hour or so of just 'shopping' singles. I am patient, but when I see half basic lands in the shop a lot of times and several times the same card side by side it agitates me. I am sure I am not the only one.

At least allow it to filter basic lands to maybe two new slots and let the other 8 show cards that aren't basic lands. Also maybe the random filter for cards could be improved so no two of the same cards appear in there at one time.
One could also allow ten card slots for normal cards and the ability to buy a 'landpack' (like a booster pack) from the most recent set available at the time. The full art Zendikar lands would be great for this.

Speaking of filters, maybe have a filter set much like has been suggested for the deck building section. You can reload (with square button) only instants, sorceries, creatures, or lands into the shop, allowing you to see more of what you are looking for. Perhaps even a color filter as well.

The ideas presented in the shop currently are great, but I believe they could be expanded to help make things feel more comfortable and not so smashed together for the sake of just having it.
Dr.Solomat wrote:"Vegeta! What does the scouter say about Wagics power level?"

"It's over ten thooooouuuuuusaaaaaaaaand!"

"What 10.000? There's no way that can be right!"
bbc
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by bbc »

:idea: Suggestion for improving the Shop :idea:

Short version:
- “Draw” the shop cards only once per day (and make them last all day)
- Use the library (deck editor) GUI as the shop GUI

Long Version
Hello, I am really frustrated by the shop. With all the new cards coming up, it really takes a long time to get a specific card.
I’ve done some programming, but not on object oriented languages and C++. I’ve been looking at Wagic code, but wouldn’t know how to start changing anything, however I think that the changes I suggest should not be too hard and would really improve game play.
The basic idea is to have the shop behave like a real shop, where you can go back in five minutes and still have the card you want for sale in the shop. Plus, have a way to better find the card you want.
This is how I suggest implementing it

1) Go to the program where the “day change” code is. I suppose it is some code that is called whenever a game is ended. In that place, put a shop “draw” algorithm to execute just once per “day”.

The “draw” algorithm could be similar to the one existing today, but instead of “drawing” 9 cards, it would draw a larger number of cards at once ( 100 cards could be OK). The cards “drawn” should be written to a file similar to the “library” file. That file should also include a few boosters for every unlocked expansion.

As an option, and to make it look more like a shop, instead of drawing 100 new cards, we could draw only a percentage of total cards, say 40%. So we select randomly 40 cards of the last “draw” (the ones that were at the shop “yesterday”) and replace them with 40 “new” cards drawn with the shop algorithm. So, if one day we see that super mythic card we have been looking for for ages, but we just happen to be out of cash, there is a slight chance that we can play a game, raise the money, return to the shop on the following “day” and still be able to see/buy the card (or not :-)).

2) Use the library GUI for the shop.
The library GUI is great for looking thru our cards. We can filter the cards by color and graphically switch from card to card very quickly.
Since we have already saved the “shop contents” to a “library style” format, the only changes that would have to be done are:
a) If we enter the library in “shop” mode, use the “shop contents file” instead of our regular library file.
b) Add a new “filter category” (up and down button) to see the boosters we have included in the “shop contents file”
c) Replace the "circle" button with the shop "buy" button functionality. This functionality would have to be changed to update the new “library style” “shop contents file” instead of the current “shop contents file”.
d) Replace standard “start” button functionality with “shop” start buton functionality.
e) Sure I am forgetting a lot of stuff, programming is never simple :-(.

I hope it is not too confusing.

Thanks again to all the dev team for Wagic.


P.S. for what is worth, I fully agree with NyghtcrawleR on this:
NyghtcrawleR wrote:Maybe to have the sytem function more in line with the real game, the boosters should be cheap say like 400-500, but the overal price system for singles should be raised? The system right now is very generous for rare cards and buying them cheaply. Generally its very expensive to get all the cards you want right away in Magic as buying singles puts a hurting on the wallet. Now I understand this is a game and not real life and that should be considered but I think that the price system kind of is backwards in how it should really function. The price for all cards should really go up. Even 20 is too cheap for commons in my opinion and the game would be much more rewarding and challenging if buying singles werent as easy.
wololo
Site Admin
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Location: Japan

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by wololo »

bbc, good suggestions but, regarding your second point, I like the current background of the shop waaaay to much to give it up. It's probably the most attractive part of the game due to its graphics, so the graphics of the shop are not going to change anytime soon. Due to that, using the Deck Editor's interface is out of the question for now. However, we might still take into account some of the changes you suggest.

Honestly I'm not taking shop suggestions too much into account because I feel that this part of the game works correctly. It might just be me, but then again I'm not preventing anyone else from improving the shop (especially, your ideas maintain a kind of "shop" experience so they're in line with the way I see the shop).
The initial goal for the shop was to be an online marketplace where users could virtually sell and buy cards (with credits, not real money, obviously). I'm not sure this will happen or not, but for me it's frustrating to change the shop if it's not to achieve that goal.

I was also thinking of allowing people to buy singles from the "achievement" screen, for insane prices. Basically people have access to the whole unlocked sets, but it's going to cost them a lot.

bbc wrote: P.S. for what is worth, I fully agree with NyghtcrawleR on this:
NyghtcrawleR wrote:Maybe to have the sytem function more in line with the real game, the boosters should be cheap say like 400-500, but the overal price system for singles should be raised? The system right now is very generous for rare cards and buying them cheaply. Generally its very expensive to get all the cards you want right away in Magic as buying singles puts a hurting on the wallet. Now I understand this is a game and not real life and that should be considered but I think that the price system kind of is backwards in how it should really function. The price for all cards should really go up. Even 20 is too cheap for commons in my opinion and the game would be much more rewarding and challenging if buying singles werent as easy.
The change suggested by NyghtcrawleR has been put into the code ages ago. The price of the booster has almost been divided by 2 based on his suggestion. They used to cost 1200 credits and now cost 700 credits.
Szei
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:14 pm
Location: USA

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by Szei »

wololo wrote: The initial goal for the shop was to be an online marketplace where users could virtually sell and buy cards (with credits, not real money, obviously). I'm not sure this will happen or not, but for me it's frustrating to change the shop if it's not to achieve that goal.
That would be great. Would that kind of feature be implemented at the same time as wi-fi multiplayer or could it be accomplished before that? Either way I know it's a long way off, but just wondering if it requires the same type of work or if it would be easier to do than multiplayer games. Anyway, I am personally satisfied with the way the shop is for now and I also am unwilling to give up the shop background. Thanks to the artist who contributed it (I know his name starts with a J... but the full name is eluding me at the present).
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abrasax
Posts: 976
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by abrasax »

An alternative solution (as proposed by wololo) would be to be able to buy cards in the trophy room through the spoiler list (now that we have one), maybe with a "multiplier effect" in order for player to prefer the shop, but to be able eventually to buy the card they are missing to do their deck...

The multiplier could be based on the base price *2 for a common card, *5 for an unco, *10 for a Rare a *50 for a mythic rare...

That would be nice...

Grü

Abra
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bbc
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Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by bbc »

Real Shop Experience
Another way to further into “real shop experience” without implementing a full wifi game is to use a standard card price list as another resource, and refresh it into every new build / release. Maybe it could even be downloaded automatically every day into the SVN resource directory.
Then, instead of using the 20 / 100 / 500 / 2000 prices, we could use a conversion ratio based on booster price ( USD 3 vs 700 credits ) and card price.

One price list could be:
http://www.magictraders.com/pricelists/current-magic

Example:
Card Price StdDev Average High Low Change Raw N
---- ----- ------ ------- ------- ------ ------ -----
Kormus Bell (4th), 0.31, 0.10, 0.31, 0.48, 0.25, 0.00, 4
Birds of Paradise(10th) 4.50, 2.81, 5.56, 11.93, 2.85, 0.00, 14

Then,
- Kormus Bell would cost: 0,31 / 3 * 700 = 72 credits.
- Birds of Paradise would cost: 5,56 / 3 * 700 = 1297 credits (based on average price).

You could even play with low and high prices depending on the number of cards bought / sold.

Of course, if a card is not found on the price list, we could default to 20 / 100 / 500 / 2000 prices.
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