Wagic Theory and AI

All about getting the AI less baka...
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Daemonfey
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Wagic Theory and AI

Post by Daemonfey »

Now, I will adress something a little more... theoretical. It is more general commentary on AI behavior that I'm not sure this is the right place to post and it is mostly a suggestion of concepts that it would greatly improve the AI if it could learn them. I understand that teaching this to the AI is all but impossible, but I think it should be something to keep in mind. The AI should have some concept of "aggro", "control" and "tempo". Most of the time when a player loses a game of magic - ignoring all factors like variancy - is because of failure to grasp who is the aggro player and who is the control player. This is different than playing an aggro or a control deck; a control deck can become the aggro player against a slower decks and an aggro deck is always control against faster decks. Probably the AI can never grasp this , for the same reason we don't have different difficulties AIs: it would be pretty much making two different AIs, which makes no sense. The most accessible way to introduce the AI to these concepts would be different castpriority or maybe "cheating": the AI compares the average converted mana cost of its cards and the players and decides who is the slowest or fastest player: and uses this as a factor in its decisions.

About "tempo", the AI needs to understand that an early advantage becomes a big advantage lategame. Somehow the AI needs to take tempo in consideration; it needs to understand that it is a good deal to trade a turn 1 creature with a turn 3 or 4, or to use its turn 2 play to disrupt the player turn 3 (like Counterspelling a powerful third turn spell). When counterspelling and discarding the AI has reasonable tempo; not so much when bolting and using removal. Even if the AI ends up making bad decisions, if it keeps gaining tempo, it has better chances to win the game; I personally think this is a more feasible concept to introduce to the AI and a very interesting one, as even if the AI ends up losing, it puts the AI - not the player - dictating the rules of the game and how they are playing - something that the AI can only do now with things like mill, Black Vises and moats.
Zethfox
Posts: 3029
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: Wagic Theory and AI

Post by Zethfox »

Ai personalities is something that wololo and I discussed on adding.

ai +cheating is a complete no go, I once gave Ai the ability to look into a players starting hand and decide if it should mulligen...as you can see, that didn't even make it to the svn before it was shot down and ripped apart.
Daemonfey
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: Wagic Theory and AI

Post by Daemonfey »

And what about a "tempo" calculation? Like there is a tempo value that the AI tries to raise during the game, and every time it does something that benefits its tempo increases by +1? Ex: AI uses a 2 cmc counter on a 3+ mana card, it's tempo goes +1.

Funny you say that about mulligan; I would suggest that AI is given the ability to mulligan when having a hand with no lands.
Zethfox
Posts: 3029
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: Wagic Theory and AI

Post by Zethfox »

ai was to include several things in it's personality..cast proirity, aggressiveness, and "tempo" would have been part of it.
Daemonfey
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Re: Wagic Theory and AI

Post by Daemonfey »

The more I thinker with AI decks the more I understand your frustration; everyone wants new cards, but forgets that as it is now, Wagic is about facing the AI. If the AI is taught how to use new added cards, it will not be playing the same rule as the player.
Zethfox
Posts: 3029
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: Wagic Theory and AI

Post by Zethfox »

that's not nearly as frustrating as adding something new for deck building and getting not a single submission as if the tools were not good enough...or worst, making an ai or game change such as the really obvious one click blocking...I guess people enjoyed having to click the card, then block, then the card, then block, then the card, repeat 100 times vs elf token deck.
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