OrbisOS: PS4 OS is a FreeBSD

[Xian Nox]

look bro, PC means Personal Computer, and in computing it's defined as a generic, general-purpose device that can be anything the developer and user decides to use it for. A console is NOT a general-purpose device, it's top most priority is playing games, while everything else is secondary and some developers don't add anything to it, or don't allow for other functionality than the one it was built for. Same goes for phones, their main objective is for people to communicate (even if they can do more than that, the rest is just added bonus), and MP3 player's main objective is to play music. Tablets are indeed more like PCs, they have general-purpose and generic functionality in mind.

While I agree with your definition of PCs, consoles, phones and MP3 players, I'm curious how you'll define gaming PCs. They way I would is: a device with a PC architecture (x86/x86_64 set, etc.) designed primarily to run games.
As for your definition of consoles, I believe they're officially called "multimedia entertainment centers" or something along those lines. In that sense, their primary purpose should be entertainment in general, not gaming. Oh, and Sony sold the PS2 and PS3 in the EU as general-purpose computers, not sure if they still do.
To add to the confusion, some things like tablets have no to a very vague legal definition, so they're assumed what the manufacturer calls them regardless of what they're designed to do, or what they can do.

I understand your point, but it's flawed due to your general lack of computer knowledge, computer history, von-newman and other important stuff a person should know before talking about computers at all.

Semantic nonsense, is it not fun?

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[Acid_Snake]

a device with a PC architecture (x86/x86_64 set, etc.)

there's no such thing as PC architecture, those you mention are intel architecture, but a PC with powerPC, ARM, MIPS, etc is still a PC, and a console with x86 is still a console, not a PC. The term both you and JeoWay are looking for is Von Newman architecture, but that architecture isn't only available for PCs, it's available, and pretty much standard, for any digital device, as it's proven to be the best so far (side note: GPUs don't use Von Newman architecture, but that's a whole different world)

Oh, and Sony sold the PS2 and PS3 in the EU as general-purpose computers

to avoid taxes (that's what otherOS and the PS2 linux kit were for), it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand

I'm curious how you'll define gaming PCs

like I said before:

PC means Personal Computer, and in computing it's defined as a generic, general-purpose device that can be anything the developer and user decides to use it for

the difference between PCs and consoles or phones is that you can decide what your PC will do, and what it will mostly do, while you barely can't choose that on consoles/phones. A PC has no predefined primary feature, consoles/phones/mp3 players do.

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[Xian Nox]

a device with a PC architecture (x86/x86_64 set, etc.)

there's no such thing as PC architecture, those you mention are intel architecture

Depends if you regard PCs as computers or as PCs.

this is one of the most dumb phrases I've seen in my whole life. By that logic, consoles have been glorified PCs since the time they became digital, which have been always. Consoles are different from PCs in that they are made specifically for games, but internally they have always used PC technology, or rather, both consoles and PCs have used digital technology, same applies to MP3 players, smartphones, flatscreens, and any other digital device. There is no such thing as a "glorofied PC", there's just devices that are either specific, or generic, but always using the same technology.

When he says "PC" he means of course "PC architecture", or if you prefer, Intel architecture

but a PC with powerPC, ARM, MIPS, etc is still a PC

No.

and a console with x86 is still a console, not a PC

No, it depends on what the manufacturer will sell it as.

The term both you and JeoWay are looking for is Von Newman architecture, but that architecture isn't only available for PCs, it's available, and pretty much standard, for any digital device, as it's proven to be the best so far (side note: GPUs don't use Von Newman architecture, but that's a whole different world)

Pretty sure I'm not looking for that term, it's too broad.

Oh, and Sony sold the PS2 and PS3 in the EU as general-purpose computers

to avoid taxes (that's what otherOS and the PS2 linux kit were for), it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand

True and false. I wanted to illustrate how one device is considered more what the manufacturer calls it, than what it's designed to do. Yes, they never put any effort into supporting linux or anything that wasn't entertainment-related, but this didn't prevent them from claiming it's a general-purpose computer (not PC).

I'm curious how you'll define gaming PCs

like I said before:

PC means Personal Computer, and in computing it's defined as a generic, general-purpose device that can be anything the developer and user decides to use it for

the difference between PCs and consoles or phones is that you can decide what your PC will do, and what it will mostly do, while you barely can't choose that on consoles/phones. A PC has no predefined primary feature, consoles/phones/mp3 players do.

But gaming computers are designed and sold as devices that run games; any other uses are an afterthought.
Well, so much arguing about semantic nonsense from me, we're going off-topic.

[Acid_Snake]

Depends if you regard PCs as computers or as PCs.

a computer is any device that follows Von Newman's architecture, a PC is a computer designed for general purpose

No.

yes, x86, MIPS, ARM, PPC, etc only allude to the CPU, not the device itself, don't even try to fight me on this one

No, it depends on what the manufacturer will sell it as.

dude if it's a console that's because the manufacturer will sell it as a console, sony's PS2 and PS3 being a PC thing was avoiding tax, has nothing to do with the device itself, which were both clearly targeted as gaming devices

Pretty sure I'm not looking for that term, it's too broad.

you yourself, and JeoWay, used the term "PC architecture", which I already said didn't exist, but the term Von Newman architecture does mean pretty much what you mean. The other term would be Intel architecture, but that's only for CPU's, it has nothing to do with the computer itself, it's like saying that a PC with XDR RAM is not a PC because "PC architecture uses DDR", plain stupid, and hurts my eyes to even look at.

But gaming computers are designed and sold as devices that run games

by who? the term "gaming PC" was created by people who have no idea about computers but use their PC for gaming mostly, hence their lack of knowledge and overall gaming habits got them to say "hey look my PC is exactly like yours but I use it for games so mine is different", it doesn't mean ***, I've never walked into a store and seen a PC market as "gaming PC", by that logic my PC is a "student PC" cause that's what I use it mostly for.

[JeoWay]

Look at it this way, look at the PS4's amazing architecture for gaming. Radeon Graphics card. AMD Processor. A hard drive. An operating system called OrbisOS.

Lets buy a PC Tower. Imagine the PS4's Hardware is able to be taken out. We put these pieces of hardware in your tower. We install windows 8 on it. Well, there you go, you really can't tell a difference between the dang plastic saying its a PS4 or a tower. It will run your Windows 8 at your convenience, your music, games, programs, browser of choice, store memory. It all does the same thing. Sony even make PCs. But the fact that they want games on it, doesn't consider it a console.

Installing Windows or something like that on it I guess would consider it a PC. The OS will control how the system reacts. How it works. How you use it.

I clearly make sense, because these "consoles" are nothing more or nothing less than a PC. The hardware could be taken from a $2500 Alienware computer and shoved into the PS4 and install an OS of choice. But because it says "PS4" on the outside plastic, I suppose it is called a console now. None of the looks, feels, or playing affects its PC motion. If the PS4 launches with a custom kernel and other os, well, there you have it. Complete use of the "PC". You would just need a monitor and the PS4 would be the tower/system.


Anyhow, I don't want anything to start really bad, I just want to tell you why these terms are mentally invalid.

[codestation]

The OS will control how the system reacts. How it works. How you use it.

This is the important part, without drivers you cannot install Linux/Windows/etc into the PS4 to be able to use it as a PC, you are restricted to playing games and whatever else sony says. also cannot do any other computer task of your choosing.

[JeoWay]

The OS will control how the system reacts. How it works. How you use it.

This is the important part, without drivers you cannot install Linux/Windows/etc into the PS4 to be able to use it as a PC, you are restricted to playing games and whatever else sony says. also cannot do any other computer task of your choosing.

I know, what I am mainly saying is, if we "could" install such an OS, it would be a PC at its own state. Everything is basically there that a PC has, but the OS determines whether the capabilities are the same or not. Lets say Sony creates an OS EXACTLY likes Microsoft's Windows. Runs .exe & all that. Right there is your PC. The only difference? You may not be able to put in different processors, graphics cards, etc.

[Minimur12]

- GRUB2 is written on the hard drive (traditionally, at least).
- PS4 can have its hard drive replaced.

But according to this, the FW is modified/ customised.

So they may have customised it so it is written on the h/ware rather than the HDD, or whatever you tech-heads say it is

http://www.eteknix.com/sony-playstation ... freebsd-9/


like you said, 'traditionally'

[m0skit0]

a computer is any device that follows Von Newman's architecture, a PC is a computer designed for general purpose

Sorry Acid_Snake, but this is definitely a big NO. A PC is a clone of the original IBM PC 5150 (hence the name). This means it aims to be compatible with it (yes, modern PCs still are compatible -somehow- with the original one). For this, it has to have Intel architecture, since the 5150 had a 8088 Intel microprocessor. A PowerPC computer is NOT a PC. A MIPS computer is NOT a PC. Also a computer does not have to follow Von Neumann architecture. There are computers that do not follow Von Neumann architecture. But of course a PC has to be Von Neumann since Intel 8088 is Von Neumann. Von Neumann is simply the most used computer architecture because it allows simpler -and thus cheaper- hardware. But for very specific computers aimed at a certain task (e.g. supercomputers), Von Neumann architecture is not always the best choice.

Of course if by PC you mean any personal computer then any computer owned by one person is a PC. So a tablet, is a PC. A smartphone is a PC. This really just differentiates a mainframe versus a "home" computer in the old times. But nowadays by "PC" you're referring to IBM PC clones for historical reasons.

without drivers you cannot install Linux/Windows/etc into the PS4 to be able to use it as a PC

I think you're missing the point here. PS4 already comes with BSD (which is an OS similar to Linux) and of course with all drivers for it to work properly.

[Acid_Snake]

A PowerPC computer is NOT a PC

older Macs would like to disagree

A MIPS computer is NOT a PC

my university PC running MIPS would like to disagree