Replacing Debian with a new distribution, need adivce

[asgard20032]

Ok, recently, after having some trouble with compiling a program using GTK+ under windows, I tried the same on my Debian system, only to discover that I can't. I can compile it on all my other system (except windows and that Debian). The problem is I can't get the libcairo-devel package, because of 2 program I installed from backport, that installed the backport version of cairo.

Those program are the iceweasel package (iceweasel is Firefox, i really needed that sync option to keep organized) and the intel driver for the X server(had a bug without it, because of the ivy bridge on-board graphic, was not able to switch terminal, or a white screen, and computer don't respond anymore). I also installed the latest kernel from the backport to resolve a problem with my faltal1ty's motherboard on-board audio, that was not detected by the system. I only installed those 3 package from backport (plus their dependency)

So now, im looking to install a new distribution, not because I hate debian(i really like debian, the best distribution i ever tried), but more because Debian release cycle is so slow, and the system tend to become outdated. I already tried Ubuntu before, I can live with it, but there is some of the thing i don't like. For example, the way it start daemon on start-up, its not the same as Debian. Root account disabled (I am not the type of guy who is logged in root, but when i need to install some program, or do lot of other thing, like changing 7 different configuration file for some service, its boring to write sudo 9 time in a row in less than 3 min, and writing password 9 time in a row). Also, unity is used by default, and if we want normal gnome, we have to download it. (if unity where used by default, but gnome ready to use, all we have to change is a check-box, it wouldn't bother me, since i would maybe even use both, but i can easily live without unity). One of the thing i liked from Ubuntu was the Software center. Contrary to the one of Debian, there was review for application. One of the thing i liked with Debian, was menu->administration->service, to control which service to run. There is also a start-up program, to control what to start-up. Ubuntu only got the start-up one (start-up is when a user log in, service for when the system start). Also, one of the thing i liked with Debian, was that at the installation, we decide whether or not to install a GUI desktop(in that case, GNOME), and additional program like a DNS server and other. Also, Ubuntu had some bloatware(program i consider not essential/useful for me)

I will mainly use it for programming/development, virtualization(i already used virtual box, but im always looking to try other software, so if you have recommendation on which software to use for virtualization, you are welcome) and for small server (either to make fun with web programming trough apache with php, or minecraft, ssh, sftp, ftps...). About the virtualization, the distribution I need won't be emulated, but will virtualize other, so not the client OS...

Because it will be used for virtualisation and for server, it need to be stable(but its not a large server, so the stability is not THE MAIN PRIORITY), and the reason why I switch, it need to have more recent package. When programming, i find it important to have access to the latest API. For example, SDL will soon be in version 2.0 (also know as 1.3) and GTK is now 3.0, SFML will be 2.0, new version for Allegro... new version of mono... new Eclipse(today) and Netbean(in few day). So its important for me to always be update. So either a rolling release distribution, or a distribution that don't have a release cycle of more than 6 month. Also, i want at least 18 month support as a minimum for bug-fix and security update. I know that Ubuntu has the ability to upgrade to a new major version, does there is other distribution that can do that? So stable, able to keep the whole system updated with latest technology and at least support for bug-fix and security update for 18 month. Oh, and package availability. I want a huge selection of available software in the repository... And I want it to have a community behind it, not a distribution only used by few people, so if I need help, I can get help.

Like I said, I liked Debian, had no difficult using it. So the "user-friendly" is not one of my criteria, as long as it don't become a Gento like system... I still want my system to work without to much trouble...

Since post like this, to get help choosing a Linux Distribution are common on the Internet, its why I added a description on exactly what im looking for.

I already have few idea of what distribution I could use, but due to a slow internet connection, and a monthly limit, I can't try all option:

Linux Mint Debian Edition: At the moment, this and fedora look like the best option for me. Im just not sure, never used a Mint distribution before, I don't exactly know how it will be. Is this a rolling release? Does its like Ubuntu, and lock down the root account? How does it differ from the normal Debian? How much bloatware does it install comparing to Debian? The Debian edition is young compared to the standard Linux Mint. Does the project is mature? Ability to upgrade to a newer major version?

Fedora: It really look like a nice distribution, I love the desktop theme i saw on so many picture, lot of blue, heard only good thing of it. Unfortunately, only 13 month support(from what Wikipedia say). Is this a rolling release? Ability to upgrade to a newer major version? (this could compensate for the 13 month support only). What about the availability of package... Debian has over 29 000 package available. How does fedora compare to it?
Edit: Fedora has 140547 package available. Source: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/ in the stats page.

OpenSUSE: I don't know much about this one, but already saw the name. Maybe you could light me up on this choice.

CentOS: Just found out this one, also look like interesting. I don't know much about it. Rolling release? All i know is that CentOS has a very long support.

Ubuntu: I don't hate Ubuntu, as a last resort, I can use it, and live with it.

What do you people recommend me? Is there other option I didn't explore? Its not because that I alway used GNOME that im not open to KDE, so what you recommend me could either be GNOME or KDE. But I don't want to use LXFCE or other, I want to use one of the 2 most used one. Also, if the distribution include some proprietary driver, it don't bother me.

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[codestation]

So now, im looking to install a new distribution, not because I hate debian(i really like debian, the best distribution i ever tried), but more because Debian release cycle is so slow, and the system tend to become outdated.

If you are using stable then i feel your pain, that thing isn't suited for desktop environments (but it's great for servers). Have you tried by switching to testing? You will get a steady flow of packages until the freeze cycle.

I already tried Ubuntu before, I can live with it, but there is some of the thing i don't like. For example, the way it start daemon on start-up, its not the same as Debian. Root account disabled (I am not the type of guy who is logged in root, but when i need to install some program, or do lot of other thing, like changing 7 different configuration file for some service, its boring to write sudo 9 time in a row in less than 3 min, and writing password 9 time in a row). Also, unity is used by default, and if we want normal gnome, we have to download it. (if unity where used by default, but gnome ready to use, all we have to change is a check-box, it wouldn't bother me, since i would maybe even use both, but i can easily live without unity).

One of the main things of any [GNU|BSD]/Linux distribution is that you aren't locked to a specific behaviour to manage your system. For example i couldn't care less about daemon startup since there are only 3(?) types: the old /etc/[rc.d|init.d]/service [start|stop], upstart (only used by *buntu) and systemd (used by fedora and others to come). Also you can create an alias for the start|stop commands so you don't have to use the default way to invoke them.

BTW, you can enable the root account in one command if you want with "sudo passwd root", increase the sudo timeout so it doesn't ask for the password that much or simply use "sudo -i" as a replacement to su to gain a root shell (i use the last one at work since i haven't bothered to give a password to the root account).

You know, i use Ubuntu at work (don't have time to configure a gentoo box like i have @ home) and only had to install gnome-panel from the official repos to have a full gnome2-like experience (it was unusable in 11.04-11.10 but they fixed it in 12.04).

One of the thing i liked from Ubuntu was the Software center. Contrary to the one of Debian, there was review for application. One of the thing i liked with Debian, was menu->administration->service, to control which service to run. There is also a start-up program, to control what to start-up. Ubuntu only got the start-up one (start-up is when a user log in, service for when the system start). Also, one of the thing i liked with Debian, was that at the installation, we decide whether or not to install a GUI desktop(in that case, GNOME), and additional program like a DNS server and other. Also, Ubuntu had some bloatware(program i consider not essential/useful for me)

Well, you seem to like build your distro from the bottom up (selecting only the thing do you want to install) instead of starting with a generic set of packages and then start removing the bloat, but that cannot be one of your main concerns when choosing a distro because you need to do that ONCE then forget about it. For example the last time that i installed a distro was 9 months ago (Gentoo in my new laptop) and before that it was almost 4 years ago (Gentoo again in my old laptop).

I will mainly use it for programming/development, virtualization(i already used virtual box, but im always looking to try other software, so if you have recommendation on which software to use for virtualization, you are welcome) and for small server (either to make fun with web programming trough apache with php, or minecraft, ssh, sftp, ftps...). About the virtualization, the distribution I need won't be emulated, but will virtualize other, so not the client OS...

I also use Virtualbox for my main needs, but if you don't need a GUI for your servers then you can give qemu a try. It can get near native performance for cpu, disk and networking by using kernel modules. It doesn't have all the goods from virtualbox (a nice GUI to configure and tweak your VM, nor guest integration for your mouse, shares, etc) but after you configure your VM then it doesn't matter anymore since all the administration can be done with ssh. tl;dr: qemu is a great virtualizer for your headless servers (you can have a emulated monitor/window like Virtualbox but isn't one of it's strong features).

So its important for me to always be update. So either a rolling release distribution, or a distribution that don't have a release cycle of more than 6 month. Also, i want at least 18 month support as a minimum for bug-fix and security update.

You can't have both 1+ year support and always updated packages in a distro. The distros need time to test a new package (and their interaction with other packages) before declaring it stable and putting it in their repo and that takes a lot of time. IF a new package version is released that doesn't mean that is stable enough to be introduced into your distro right away. Take for example gcc 4.7.x, it came out months ago but gentoo is still using gcc 4.6 because 4.7 breaks A LOT of packages.

Basically you have to choose between having the most stable distro (with ancient packages), a distro with moderate stability (with releases every 6 months and security backports) or a rolling release distro (very updated but you will encounter some bugs along the way, almost no backports since the distro will use the new version instead).

I know that Ubuntu has the ability to upgrade to a new major version, does there is other distribution that can do that? So stable, able to keep the whole system updated with latest technology and at least support for bug-fix and security update for 18 month.

It depends, let me give you an example with Ubuntu:

Ubuntu choose to do a mayor release every 6 months, that means that the package version will be frozen and you will no get new features, only security fixes. If you stay that way and don't mess too much with the system then the upgrade path for the next major version will be painless. Now lets say that you have some versionitis or want/need the new cool feature of the software X, since Ubuntu won't update to that version in the next 3-6 months then you install the package yourself or use a 3rd party repo (ppa). Now since you introduced a new variant the next major updgrade path could fail or have some problems along the way (dependency problems, the 3rd party repo has conflicts with the new packages, etc). As i said above, it's very difficult to have both stability and updated packages.

I already have few idea of what distribution I could use, but due to a slow internet connection, and a monthly limit, I can't try all option:

It's hard to recommend you a rolling release distro like Archlinux for this very reason, the more time passes between updates then the more possible problems you could encounter when updating. Also the package list/size will increase if you left your box too much time without updating, for example i get around 500 MiB on a Archlinux box that i am managing and haven't updated in 40 days.

Linux Mint Debian Edition: At the moment, this and fedora look like the best option for me. Im just not sure, never used a Mint distribution before, I don't exactly know how it will be. Is this a rolling release? Does its like Ubuntu, and lock down the root account? How does it differ from the normal Debian? How much bloatware does it install comparing to Debian? The Debian edition is young compared to the standard Linux Mint. Does the project is mature? Ability to upgrade to a newer major version?

Is derived from Ubuntu so consider it like a Ubuntu variant with a different set of packages and some customizations. I recommended it for a while since Ubuntu was using Unity with not good alternative in sight (changed in 12.04). Personally never used it for more than a week so i can not give a good review.

Fedora: It really look like a nice distribution, I love the desktop theme i saw on so many picture, lot of blue, heard only good thing of it. Unfortunately, only 13 month support(from what Wikipedia say). Is this a rolling release? Ability to upgrade to a newer major version? (this could compensate for the 13 month support only). What about the availability of package... Debian has over 29 000 package available. How does fedora compare to it?
Edit: Fedora has 140547 package available. Source: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/ in the stats page.

Fedora is sometimes a testing ground for new technologies so there is a lot of things that could change between releases. For example it was the first distro to implement systemd as a init daemon, and it will use btrfs as a default filesystem soon. One of the things that you should know is that you won't find any support for propietary packages or those with patent issues in their official repos, you will have to configure 3rd party repos for that (for example it doesn't even has mp3 support by default, blame USA for it's **** patent system).

OpenSUSE: I don't know much about this one, but already saw the name. Maybe you could light me up on this choice.

Bloatware, bloatware everywhere , also uses KDE as a default desktop (which is a good thing) and have one of the best and mature system config tool: Yast2

CentOS: Just found out this one, also look like interesting. I don't know much about it. Rolling release? All i know is that CentOS has a very long support.

Good support, maybe i will use on a server someday. Never used it personally so i can't comment more than that.

Ubuntu: I don't hate Ubuntu, as a last resort, I can use it, and live with it.

As a user i don't hate it, but as a developer i despise it. Their community sucks a lot, for example their forums are filled with nonsense and if you look for help in google you will find a flood of outdated info from blogs that make you copy&paste some commands in a terminal (FYI, 90% of these outdated command-line """"fixes"""" that you find in blogs can be also solved with the official Ubuntu GUI tools). If you choose Ubuntu PLEASE stick with the official documentation and stay away from blogs when you need help.

What do you people recommend me? Is there other option I didn't explore? Its not because that I alway used GNOME that im not open to KDE, so what you recommend me could either be GNOME or KDE. But I don't want to use LXFCE or other, I want to use one of the 2 most used one. Also, if the distribution include some proprietary driver, it don't bother me.

The only thing that i can recommend for a developer who need updated software and cannot wait for a release cycle is Archlinux. The installation base is as minimal as debian, their packages are updated frequently and their community is awesome. If a package doesn't exist in their official repos you can almost always find it in AUR (a community driven repository). If everything else fails you can write a PKGBUILD script to build a installable package for your system (the PKGBUILD script format is very simple and you can use the ones from other packages as a reference to write your own). I am a Gentoo user but sometimes i find answer in their forums (good community), also the Archlinux wiki is one of the best ones (updated and with good info that can be applied to other distros), i use it regularly when i cannot find something in the Gentoo wiki.

Of course, your internet problem is the biggest issue when going for a rolling release distro like Archlinux so i don't know what other distro to recommend you...

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[asgard20032]

Have you tried by switching to testing? You will get a steady flow of packages until the freeze cycle.

What exaclty is debian testing? A distribution or simply changing the software repositary? If its only changing where it get software, I will get same Issue that I got with backport, updating one package broke the ability to update other because of dependancy and newer version. Also, I heard lot of thing about debian+testing = bug, very unstable.

Well, you seem to like build your distro from the bottom up (selecting only the thing do you want to install) instead of starting with a generic set of packages and then start removing the bloat, but that cannot be one of your main concerns when choosing a distro because you need to do that ONCE then forget about it. For example the last time that i installed a distro was 9 months ago (Gentoo in my new laptop) and before that it was almost 4 years ago (Gentoo again in my old laptop).

Not really, I like to have a out-of the box functional OS. But not to much. For example, last time I installed Ubuntu, it had 3 movie player(totem, i think vlc was the other and i don't remember the last one...) that came installed, 2-3 audio player (Banshe, rythmbox and i don't remember the name of the other...) and some application that most of the normal people will never use. With Debian, i had to admit that yes, it came with 2 web browser and 2 mail application, but except that, was really clean. What I liked with Debian, like I said, was the ability to choose whether or not to install a GUI at install, but since its a working desktop i want and not just a server, I will install it, but I still like that option(for example, to make fun in a virtualbox, I can install one with no GUI...), and the fact it also give you other option to install additional server program.

Ubuntu choose to do a mayor release every 6 months, that means that the package version will be frozen and you will no get new features, only security fixes. If you stay that way and don't mess too much with the system then the upgrade path for the next major version will be painless. Now lets say that you have some versionitis or want/need the new cool feature of the software X, since Ubuntu won't update to that version in the next 3-6 months then you install the package yourself or use a 3rd party repo (ppa). Now since you introduced a new variant the next major updgrade path could fail or have some problems along the way (dependency problems, the 3rd party repo has conflicts with the new packages, etc). As i said above, it's very difficult to have both stability and updated packages.

I am not the type who install lot of program from 3rd repo, maybe 10 max. But it will be more like 1-3. (Maybe most recent version of mono)

Linux Mint Debian Edition: At the moment, this and fedora look like the best option for me. Im just not sure, never used a Mint distribution before, I don't exactly know how it will be. Is this a rolling release? Does its like Ubuntu, and lock down the root account? How does it differ from the normal Debian? How much bloatware does it install comparing to Debian? The Debian edition is young compared to the standard Linux Mint. Does the project is mature? Ability to upgrade to a newer major version?


Is derived from Ubuntu so consider it like a Ubuntu variant with a different set of packages and some customizations. I recommended it for a while since Ubuntu was using Unity with not good alternative in sight (changed in 12.04). Personally never used it for more than a week so i can not give a good review.

Just to be sure, did you where talking about Linux Mint or Linux Mint Debian Edition?

Fedora is sometimes a testing ground for new technologies so there is a lot of things that could change between releases. For example it was the first distro to implement systemd as a init daemon, and it will use btrfs as a default filesystem soon. One of the things that you should know is that you won't find any support for propietary packages or those with patent issues in their official repos, you will have to configure 3rd party repos for that (for example it doesn't even has mp3 support by default, blame USA for it's **** patent system).

I don't fear change. Why I hated Ubuntu daemon system, it was because it was the only one that was using that system, so finding documentation on it, and making it work, was a hard thing. But normally, Fedora establish standard right? About proprietary packages, iirc, i read somewhere that there was a distribution that had a official repo made for some proprietary package because of patent. Although, again iirc, that repo was not enable per default. That distribution is on my list i posted here, but don't know which. Is it Fedora?

asgard20032 wrote:OpenSUSE: I don't know much about this one, but already saw the name. Maybe you could light me up on this choice.


Bloatware, bloatware everywhere , also uses KDE as a default desktop (which is a good thing) and have one of the best and mature system config tool: Yast2

I looked a little openSUSE, and the more I look at it, the more interesting it become. But when you say bloatware, that you mean? Like ubuntu, a hundred different audio player installed by default?

Of course, your internet problem is the biggest issue when going for a rolling release distro like Archlinux so i don't know what other distro to recommend you...

My internet connection is a "high speed internet, 1 mb/s", this is the subscription i got from my ISP. But in reality, internet most of the time unstable, and the speed is always 70-110 kb/s. Also, a limit of 25-35 gb per month(don't remember the exact number). So yes its an issue, but not a major one. I can live with it, but I just don't want to try all distribution and do 10 gb of download in one week, because it will mean one week with internet monopolized for download purpose, with no ability to play game without lag.

The only thing that i can recommend for a developer who need updated software and cannot wait for a release cycle is Archlinux. The installation base is as minimal as debian, their packages are updated frequently and their community is awesome. If a package doesn't exist in their official repos you can almost always find it in AUR (a community driven repository). If everything else fails you can write a PKGBUILD script to build a installable package for your system (the PKGBUILD script format is very simple and you can use the ones from other packages as a reference to write your own). I am a Gentoo user but sometimes i find answer in their forums (good community), also the Archlinux wiki is one of the best ones (updated and with good info that can be applied to other distros), i use it regularly when i cannot find something in the Gentoo wiki.

Since few week, im looking to install Archlinux, but not as my main OS. More like FreeBSD, to make fun building a system. But since im not a Linux Guru, i won't use it for my working environment. So maybe in few week I will install it. What I like from debian is not the do-it-yourself aspect, but the customize your installation with few option at install time. So when I say bloatware, i mean program that 70% of people will never use, or more than one program to do the same job, not that I want a minimalistic installation. Minimalistic installation mean:
"Ok now that the system is installed, how the heck I am suppose to make audio work, what should I install... how to configure it... Oh heck, still so many thing to do to make that system operational."

[Xian Nox]

I use openSUSE because that was the first Linux I used. Story goes that I bought a book about Linux and it had a DVD with this distro on it, so I gave it a try and liked it.

OpenSUSE: I don't know much about this one, but already saw the name. Maybe you could light me up on this choice.

Bloatware, bloatware everywhere , also uses KDE as a default desktop (which is a good thing) and have one of the best and mature system config tool: Yast2

I can't say I have much trouble with the bloatware (haven't tried other distros much, and pretty good hardware on my part), but yast2 is really user(newb-) friendly. It doesn't offer a command line interface like other distros (or at least I've never had to use one so far), but has a Qt/GTk/ncurses interface. Nice straightforward interface, which I like a lot. I use it to update my system instead of the automatic KDE update, because it works better, and offers me easier control. Also, I don't like idea of automatic updates in general.
As for updates, you can add the Tumbleweed repositories, they contain the untested packages. This may cause some issues (like Amarok stopped working for me due to some mysql or something update), but again, before anything is changed, you're asked. You can set packages to be protected as well if you wish, in which case they won't be updated/downgraded/removed.
Default installation is GUI, and unlike Fedora, won't wipe your hard drive without much of a warning. Again, what I really like, before the installation starts, a detailed list of changes is given. Presets are good as well, which makes it newb-friendly (and why I liked it in the beginning).
The default repositories contain only OSS. For codecs and the sorts, there's another repository and an automatic configuration file available somewhere on the wiki. I've never had problems with drivers (excluding my wireless network issues with 12.01, but when I tried Fedora, wireless didn't work again).
As far as programming is concerned, most libraries I can think of are already in the main repo. Doesn't have much of a choice when it comes to IDEs there (Antjuta, MonoDevelop, KDevelop, QtCreator iirc were the only ones there), but most of the time I use Qt Creator for Qt-related things, Kate for smaller projects, and Eclipse for Java.
You can try it out, get one of the Live CDs and write it on a flash stick. At least you'll know if you need additional drivers or not.

Edit: as for what is bloated: iunno, everybody seems to say that.

[asgard20032]

I use openSUSE because that was the first Linux I used. Story goes that I bought a book about Linux and it had a DVD with this distro on it, so I gave it a try and liked it.

OpenSUSE: I don't know much about this one, but already saw the name. Maybe you could light me up on this choice.

Bloatware, bloatware everywhere , also uses KDE as a default desktop (which is a good thing) and have one of the best and mature system config tool: Yast2

I can't say I have much trouble with the bloatware (haven't tried other distros much, and pretty good hardware on my part), but yast2 is really user(newb-) friendly. It doesn't offer a command line interface like other distros (or at least I've never had to use one so far), but has a Qt/GTk/ncurses interface. Nice straightforward interface, which I like a lot. I use it to update my system instead of the automatic KDE update, because it works better, and offers me easier control. Also, I don't like idea of automatic updates in general.
As for updates, you can add the Tumbleweed repositories, they contain the untested packages. This may cause some issues (like Amarok stopped working for me due to some mysql or something update), but again, before anything is changed, you're asked. You can set packages to be protected as well if you wish, in which case they won't be updated/downgraded/removed.
Default installation is GUI, and unlike Fedora, won't wipe your hard drive without much of a warning. Again, what I really like, before the installation starts, a detailed list of changes is given. Presets are good as well, which makes it newb-friendly (and why I liked it in the beginning).
The default repositories contain only OSS. For codecs and the sorts, there's another repository and an automatic configuration file available somewhere on the wiki. I've never had problems with drivers (excluding my wireless network issues with 12.01, but when I tried Fedora, wireless didn't work again).
As far as programming is concerned, most libraries I can think of are already in the main repo. Doesn't have much of a choice when it comes to IDEs there (Antjuta, MonoDevelop, KDevelop, QtCreator iirc were the only ones there), but most of the time I use Qt Creator for Qt-related things, Kate for smaller projects, and Eclipse for Java.
You can try it out, get one of the Live CDs and write it on a flash stick. At least you'll know if you need additional drivers or not.

Edit: as for what is bloated: iunno, everybody seems to say that.

How Tumbleweed work? Does it is like backport, and will break my system with dependency? No Netbean or eclipse in IDE?

[Xian Nox]

On yast2 software manager, you open the repository configuration, and add in the new repository. No, it doesn't break the default one, it just adds a new source. You can set it on a lower priority too, and in this way it won't install anything from it unless you specifically say so.
You can use Netbean and Eclipse, but they're not included in the default repository afaik. The Netbeans installer works properly, and Eclipse only needs to be extracted, so not much of an issue with either of them.

[asgard20032]

On yast2 software manager, you open the repository configuration, and add in the new repository. No, it doesn't break the default one, it just adds a new source. You can set it on a lower priority too, and in this way it won't install anything from it unless you specifically say so.
You can use Netbean and Eclipse, but they're not included in the default repository afaik. The Netbeans installer works properly, and Eclipse only needs to be extracted, so not much of an issue with either of them.

This mean less package available from repository... Lets get back to bloat... Is there a lot of service running in the background that may render the system more slow?

[Xian Nox]

On yast2 software manager, you open the repository configuration, and add in the new repository. No, it doesn't break the default one, it just adds a new source. You can set it on a lower priority too, and in this way it won't install anything from it unless you specifically say so.
You can use Netbean and Eclipse, but they're not included in the default repository afaik. The Netbeans installer works properly, and Eclipse only needs to be extracted, so not much of an issue with either of them.

This mean less package available from repository... Lets get back to bloat... Is there a lot of service running in the background that may render the system more slow?

I wouldn't say there's exactly a shortage of packages. I haven't experienced any slowdowns or the system being unresponsive at all, but I can't compare to other distributions. Also, if you don't want something, you can just stop it.

[codestation]

Lets get back to bloat... Is there a lot of service running in the background that may render the system more slow?

It depends, and probably we have different meaning of "bloat". I have 2 types of these:

a) software packages that come by default like audio players, little games, camera software, mail clients, etc. This is good for new users since they probably doesn't know the software names to install them from the software center, but for advanced users these just get a little annoying to search and uninstall every one of these then install the alternatives that you want (if you have one). Fortunately it just take some minutes to get rid of all and you never need to think back about these AGAIN.

b) software packages that you can't remove because they are compile or runtime time dependencies of another package. Why i should initialize and load a bluetooth stack, lvm manager or mail server everytime my pc starts if don't even have/use it on my desktop? I don't want the nepomuk/strigi/virtuoso and other semantic *** in KDE, but i can't remove them in a regular distro without taking 2/3 of KDE with them (one of my reasons that i use Gentoo, since i can remove all that bloat at compile time).

I say that openSUSE has "bloat" because the default installation have tons of software that i will never use, so i have to remove these by hand (it reminds me a lot of new Windows laptops that come with lots of preinstalled shareware, toolbars and trials).

[asgard20032]

I am the type who prefer to open package manager and download the right thing than going on the official site of the package to download it. (it dosent mean i won't use openSUSE for that.)

When i said i liked the look of fedora, its because of that : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/F10Themes/Solar I love that theme. The blue, plasma, look very futurist. (but on any distribution i can customize like that, we have to say that fedora has lot of still... i defy anyone to disagree on that.) For people to lazy to click on link, here is the picture i see when i think Fedora(but there lot of other picture in the link):



Regarding openSUSE, are you sure the Eclipse and Netbean are not in repo? Did you checked in Tumbleweed? If its not here, i guess its because openSUSE community don't like oracle and ibm, so maybe no MySQL and no Virtual-box, without going in their official website.

On the wikipedia page, I saw that Fedora has 2 extra repo:

Third party repositories exist that distribute more packages that are not included in Fedora either because it does not meet Fedora's definition of free software or because distribution of that software may violate US law. The primary third party repositories, and the only fully compatible ones, are RPM Fusion and Livna. RPM Fusion is a joint effort by many third party repository maintainers. Livna is still maintained separately as an extension of RPM Fusion for legal reasons and only hosts the libdvdcss package for encrypted DVD playback.

What about mp3 and flashplayer? Are they in those extra repo?

Also, the 11 july, a new version of openSUSE will be available, featuring the most recent application... but i still don't know if i can upgrade, when new major version available...

Edit: I just found out that Fedora has the ability to upgrade to the next release, so compensate a lot for the fact that it has less support. Now im checking if using a spin (An alternate fedora version) has any repercussion. Does it only add more package, or also affect the repo used and setting... As far as i understand, the KDE spin don't look official. Also, i found out that openSUSE also had the ability to upgrade to the latest version. So actually, im more toward Fedora and OpenSUSE, because contrary to LMDE(Linux Mint Debian Edition), they are more mature, and I think they are best suited for my need than CentOS, although, I will continue to check CentOS, to be sure to exclude it from my choice. As far as i know, Fedora and OpenSUSE alway include latest technology, are not to slow with the release cycle, and from what i heard, both have great visual aspect, compiz and other toy for openSuse and beatiful wallpaper for Fedora, one use Gnome(Fedora) and the other use KDE(OpenSUSE), we can still changethe desktop if we want, but if I have a working desktop, why messing changing it...