"I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Discute about general card coding keyword, ask questions and get answer about the mechanism, about the guideline, the direction we want to go...etc...
wololo
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by wololo » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:19 am

There are major issues that need to be solved for planeswalkers to work.
First, reorganize the battlefield, which is already quite packed.
Then, update the combat system, which currently only allows to attack one target.
Then (finally), the "easy" steps: coding the missing abilities, types, etc...

mnguyen
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by mnguyen » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:13 am

The planeswalker cards, though very cool, are but an added bonus to the game. I wouldn't consider them essential to the game. Much like how the ArchEnemy Scheme cards are secondary to the core of the game. I would think adding planeswalkers to the game will not only increase the complexity of the game (interactions between player and planeswalker), but because of the screen real estate of the PSP, I would think the images now would be even smaller or become even more cramped. To make it more suitable to the PSP, from looking at the current code, I would guess that it would require a lot of redesign. Perhaps even find a new graphics engine to render the game. JGE is, I believe, defunct.
However, adding more abilities is as proven by Zethfox of late, an easier thing to do. There are a number of mechanics that need to be revamped to support more cards. For instance, as mentioned previously, damage vs life gain triggers are currently not possible as the code treats damage and life gain similarly. In order to do things, like add in Ajani's pridemate, a new mechanic needs to be worked into the code base to support that. In the next expansion, the are emblems, From ROE, annihilator, etc. working on these features would help bolster the core of the code and make Wagic better overall.

my two cents..

wololo
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by wololo » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:14 am

Well, although it's been discussed several times, I understand that people want to add cards, and it is really appreciated that people do so, but I am personally alright with a game that handles several thousands cards. There's no chance I'm playing with all of those anyways.
Imagine if starcraft had 6000 units to play with, I don't think people would complain about a missing extra thousand.

My point is that I want to increase the fun of the game, rather than the "MTG simulator" part of it.
This is of course a very personal goal, and I am happy that other coders have taken over the task of adding new cards, so don't get me wrong ;)

But fixing bugs, making the AI more interesting (not necessarily more clever), introducing campaigns and scenarios... overall, things that make people wanna play more, things that make people understand that Wagic is much more than a simple simulator, is my personal goal. I wish I had more time to spend on this though.

Zethfox
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by Zethfox » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:22 am

wololo wrote:There are major issues that need to be solved for planeswalkers to work.
First, reorganize the battlefield, which is already quite packed.
Then, update the combat system, which currently only allows to attack one target.
Then (finally), the "ever so slightly easier" steps: coding the missing abilities, types, etc...
had to fix that last line...wololo i dont think your read thier actual abilities,
i dont want people to mis read that and say "or he said its easy"
such as "if its not your turn take and extra turn after this one"
theres a whole slew of probelms to deal with before we can have that.
planeswalker= NOTHING easy...and as i mentioned earlier, i would rather see the missing abilities, multitargetting, and reveal cards support...
16 vs possibly a few hundred cards.
overall, things that make people wanna play more, things that make people understand that Wagic is much more than a simple simulator, is my personal goal
wololo my friend....you miss one thing tho, in not adding support for card groups like "may pay x during combat" "reveal cards and put whatever"
and "insert unsupported abilities"

new player comes to wagic...new player plays wagic and comes to forum to complain his favorate card isnt showing up in game
*really it just isnt supported* DEV tells new player its not supported....
new player try another "power house deck" new player notices missing cards again.....new player comes back to forum and ask if that too is not supported.....dev replies "sorry"....new player stops playing wagic and check ever so often to see if his cards are supported.



you dont have to beleve me wololo, read through the forums....

wololo
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by wololo » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:40 am

Ah, yes, don't get me wrong. I know LOTS of people want new cards, and I'm glad other people than me are working a lot to improve the number of cards/abilities playable in Wagic.

I just said increasing the number of cards is not my personal goal, and I explained why I'm not pushing very hard to get more cards in the game, including planeswalkers.
If you dig a bit in the forum you will see that this has been my policy for a while now. I believe there are lots of ways to improve Wagic without adding new cards: network play, campaigns, adding "life" to the AIs, on the long term I want to change the "simulator" experience into a "gaming" experience where the player feel that they have been making "progress" throughout the game. It's as simple as: you start with a crapy deck, fighting crappy enemies, but as you get stronger, enemies get stronger too, and rewards as well.
Kind of an RPG experience, if you see what I mean.

I'm definitely NOT saying that adding new cards is a waste of effort ;) Especially, I want to insist on the fact that "I don't want to spend too much time adding new cards and abilities" is a 100% personal opinion, and absolutely not something I would ever enforce on the dev team. A huge part of Wagic's success (I think) is that we're a community, and devs are free (and will always be) to work on the things they personally want to see in the game. Especially, adding cards is something everyone enjoy, so I don't picture myself saying it's not good.

kaioshin
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by kaioshin » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:11 am

I can see everyone's point of view. And I know that adding abilities to the source code is not easy (since I tried myself) and coding takes a lot of time and is frustrating as heck.
But to me, the Planeswalkers are much more than just "16 cards". They are defining a huge part of what Magic now is to me. And I'm not new, I've been a player since 1999. Every Planeswalker opens so much possibilities how to play, with at least 3 abilities, that they can not be taken out of competitive play.
What I want to say is: Wagic without Planeswalkers just feels like Wagic without Artifacts, or Instants, or Creatures. Just not complete (which it can never be, of course), but it makes me kinda sad to hear that there won't be any Planeswalkers in the near future (if at all).
This of course, is just my 2 Cents :). No harm done, I'm certainly not in the position to make any demands from anyone :lol:. But still, I wanted to be the Planeswalker-loving voice in this thread, to represent a whole lot of players out there.

cheers! :)

Zethfox
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by Zethfox » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:02 am

:) dont jump the gun on this one kaio...
they will be in wagic, i swaer to that...
but theres an order to how it should be done (clearly my opinion)

first code the support for thier abilities -- this is important since the last thing you want is wagic with 3 planeswalkers. then youre left feeling cheated.
second code support in gui for new placement of this type
3rd code Ai support for how it will use planeswalkers
then we can code the combat system for them.

once all this is done planes walkers will enter wagic full force...

kaioshin
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by kaioshin » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:19 am

Thanks, Zeth, for the encouraging words :). They are greatly appreciated.

Zethfox
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by Zethfox » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:51 pm

and mind you kaio, ive never even had a chance to play with planeswalkers....the more i learn about them the more i really really wish wagic supported them right now...but ive dived into the code...i can see the amount of time work and test it would take for planes walkers...

i wasnt around when wagic switched over to M10 combat rules....but i can imagine that planeswalkers will be JUST like that.

moxen
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Re: "I AM NOT IN WAGIC YET????"

Post by moxen » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:22 am

This sound like Dr is hinting that it's almost done.
Only those crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.

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