Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

All about the shop and the way of improving it
abrasax
Posts: 976
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:46 am
Location: Switzerland

Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by abrasax » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:29 am

Hi,

I know all of you already made suggestion to improve the shop and I think it make sense to make a separate thread instead of having all suggestion in the whishlist for the next release.

At the moment I find it very frustating to have to enter/exit the shop to find some new cards, and I personnally always cheat to get the card I want.. that definetly not the way it should go...

So here is how I would love to see the shop.

The graphical interface should be the same as the deck editor with the nice 3d scrolling, with the addition of booster and starter when you press the up/down navigation button.

The shop should have its own collection.dat and should randomly add cards, booster and starter (as it is currently the case when you enter the shop) when you win a game. This collection.dat should also have a limitation of 4 of each card 2 of each booster and 1 of each starter…

Also a nice graphical add would be to be able to add custom pic for booster/starter like the following:

Image

could be added as "booster.jpg" or "starter.jpg" in the corresponding set folder.

Also the background image should not be limited to 400x280 but should be full screen like the following:

Image

This way, the more you play and the more you win game and money, the more cards are available in the shop and at a certain point of time you would be able to find all your favourite cards in the shop…

Well, that’s all, for sure it would be great to have some unlockable set related to some specific tournament, but that would be for sure more complicated to code..

Grü

Abra
We need your Help !!!
New to wagic ? Be sure to check the following :

Bug report: Bug reporting
Help us: Add cards & Compiling.
Customize: Themes FAQ, All images thread, Abra's Mediafire folder

darkmatter
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:09 am

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by darkmatter » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:10 pm

good ideas. I think scrolling boosters can't be that hard to add, as it follows a similar set-up to the scrolling cards?

NyghtcrawleR
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:07 am
Location: Planeswalking

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by NyghtcrawleR » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:26 am

In regards to boosters, as I stated recently, the prices should be way cheaper to make it work more like a real card game. Right now its almost pointless to buy one. The prices should only be 250-350ish in cost. The current price defeats the purpose of what a booster pack is and why people buy them in real life.
"Real Magic" Graphic Mod & Image sets: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=318

wololo
Site Admin
Posts: 3727
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:42 am
Location: Japan

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by wololo » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:15 am

Regarding boosters prices: when I was playing MTG, the whole point was that depending on the rare card you'd get, the booster would sometimes be a win, sometimes a loss.
right now the pricing system in Wagic is not put in place correctly, as ideally it would rely on a huge community that would influence the price. but for that I need to work on some network features that have been postponed for a long time.
Most rare cards are around 500 credits, and uncommons are around 100 credits. When you buy a card from the shop, its price increases. When you sell a card, its price decreases.
If you put this system in place with a community mechanism, prices would change depending on the popularity of cards, and a central server would keep updating the prices list. This *will* happen one day when I find the time to work on community features for Wagic.

Also keep in mind that mythic rares are 2000 credits, and you have one chance out of eight to get one in newer sets. In that case, your 1200 credits booster was worth it...

It is difficult to give a good balance to the prices of cards, but I have one thing in mind: Winning a game should not give you enough credits to buy a booster pack. This is an important rule for me to keep the game interesting enough.


Regarding abrasax's suggestions:
good suggestions, I'll try to implement some of those. I'm however working right now on some changes that are incompatible with some of the changes you suggest, but I can't tell more because it depends on external factors as well.

I love the sets unlocking stuff. It would be *doable* to randomly unlock sets with victories. At first, the player has only access to the initial set (10E), and whenever a game is won, an extra set is possibly unlocked in the shop... I'll think about that!

NyghtcrawleR
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:07 am
Location: Planeswalking

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by NyghtcrawleR » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:22 pm

wololo wrote:Regarding boosters prices: when I was playing MTG, the whole point was that depending on the rare card you'd get, the booster would sometimes be a win, sometimes a loss.
right now the pricing system in Wagic is not put in place correctly, as ideally it would rely on a huge community that would influence the price. but for that I need to work on some network features that have been postponed for a long time.
Most rare cards are around 500 credits, and uncommons are around 100 credits. When you buy a card from the shop, its price increases. When you sell a card, its price decreases.
If you put this system in place with a community mechanism, prices would change depending on the popularity of cards, and a central server would keep updating the prices list. This *will* happen one day when I find the time to work on community features for Wagic.

Also keep in mind that mythic rares are 2000 credits, and you have one chance out of eight to get one in newer sets. In that case, your 1200 credits booster was worth it...

It is difficult to give a good balance to the prices of cards, but I have one thing in mind: Winning a game should not give you enough credits to buy a booster pack. This is an important rule for me to keep the game interesting enough.
In that regard winning a game shouldnt net you enough to buy a rare. I mean if you think about it the point of boosters is to gamble on what you get for that lower price. Thats why boosters exist in the first place. If you are basing it on mythic rares for the whole system, then that is wrong imo. There are only 8 as you said, yet how many cards in wagic? You are only basically chancing on mythic rares for that price, everything else is pointless because there are too many other cards and you will mostly just waste money.

I see where you are coming from but the way its setup really defeats the purpose of what boosters are meant for. When you ask most people here if they buy boosters, the answer is no.... theres a reason for that.

I actually dont see a reason why winning a game cant net you a booster, its a gamble and half the time or even more than that you wont use the cards that come with the pack. Plus their value is almost no different then if you bought a rare, a couple uncommons and commons from the store on their own. You can do that almost buy winning a single game in wagic now depending on the difficulty and speed you win....
"Real Magic" Graphic Mod & Image sets: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=318

prismeclipser
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:30 am

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by prismeclipser » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:00 pm

wololo wrote:Regarding boosters prices: when I was playing MTG, the whole point was that depending on the rare card you'd get, the booster would sometimes be a win, sometimes a loss.
right now the pricing system in Wagic is not put in place correctly, as ideally it would rely on a huge community that would influence the price. but for that I need to work on some network features that have been postponed for a long time.
Most rare cards are around 500 credits, and uncommons are around 100 credits. When you buy a card from the shop, its price increases. When you sell a card, its price decreases.
If you put this system in place with a community mechanism, prices would change depending on the popularity of cards, and a central server would keep updating the prices list. This *will* happen one day when I find the time to work on community features for Wagic.

Also keep in mind that mythic rares are 2000 credits, and you have one chance out of eight to get one in newer sets. In that case, your 1200 credits booster was worth it...

It is difficult to give a good balance to the prices of cards, but I have one thing in mind: Winning a game should not give you enough credits to buy a booster pack. This is an important rule for me to keep the game interesting enough.


Regarding abrasax's suggestions:
good suggestions, I'll try to implement some of those. I'm however working right now on some changes that are incompatible with some of the changes you suggest, but I can't tell more because it depends on external factors as well.

I love the sets unlocking stuff. It would be *doable* to randomly unlock sets with victories. At first, the player has only access to the initial set (10E), and whenever a game is won, an extra set is possibly unlocked in the shop... I'll think about that!
But Wololo, that's not fair to the older boosters to be priced the same since they don't have a chance to be a 2000 MR. I think 1000 or 800 would be fairer than 1200, and unlike right now where you have to beat 3 games for 1 booster, you'd beat 2 which is still what you're aiming for but easier on us booster buyers since we come closer to recuperating costs if we get a **** rare or we're unlucky and we get 1 we have four of. Even if you sold everything in a booster, you'd only get 1000 back, which is good enough to break even at the 1000 price mark.

That's another thing that bugs me is that if you buy a booster that you already have four of, you don't get that money back. The card is just *poof* gone and there's no point to buying boosters if your collection is already mostly 4'ed.

The only time I do buy boosters is when I delete my collection, cheat up enough money for 12 packs, and make decks from that. After that, I just buy singles since I don't have to worry about the magically disappearing cards.

NyghtcrawleR
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:07 am
Location: Planeswalking

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by NyghtcrawleR » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:50 pm

prismeclipser wrote: But Wololo, that's not fair to the older boosters to be priced the same since they don't have a chance to be a 2000 MR. I think 1000 or 800 would be fairer than 1200, and unlike right now where you have to beat 3 games for 1 booster, you'd beat 2 which is still what you're aiming for but easier on us booster buyers since we come closer to recuperating costs if we get a **** rare or we're unlucky and we get 1 we have four of. Even if you sold everything in a booster, you'd only get 1000 back, which is good enough to break even at the 1000 price mark.

That's another thing that bugs me is that if you buy a booster that you already have four of, you don't get that money back. The card is just *poof* gone and there's no point to buying boosters if your collection is already mostly 4'ed.

The only time I do buy boosters is when I delete my collection, cheat up enough money for 12 packs, and make decks from that. After that, I just buy singles since I don't have to worry about the magically disappearing cards.
First point about older boosters, right on, but I disagree with the the price that you stated about the older packs still. Its just too high to be used like boosters should be, it really defeats their purpose...
"Real Magic" Graphic Mod & Image sets: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=318

wololo
Site Admin
Posts: 3727
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:42 am
Location: Japan

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by wololo » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:15 am

Mmm, ok, I think I get your points.
300 Credits for one booster is too cheap considering that I don't want to be able to buy one booster after each victory.
I find it strange that people focus on singles. I actually buy more boosters because of the surprise. AND, if there's a card I want from 10E, I know I'll have more chances of getting it in a booster rather than waiting for it to appear in the singles.

@prismeclipser: cards magically disappearing? That's never happened to me. You mean that if you already have 4 cards of, say, "raging goblin" in your collection, and you get one more in a booster, the raging goblin is not added to your collection? I doubt that...

@NyghtcrawleR: if boosters cost 300 Credits, this whole thing wouldn't work:
you pay 300, and you get 1 rare and 3 uncommons, which are an average total of 800 (500 + 3 * 100) + 11 commons for a total of 220 (11*20). So the total of your cards is 1020 credits on average, that you can resell for around half that price, which is 510.
So boosters HAVE to cost a bit more than the average of their resell price, otherwise you would make money by buying boosters :shock:

Does 700 sound like a fair price? It's the price of one rare + 2 uncommons. So you get more than what you paid for, but you can't make money (on average) by reselling it.

prismeclipser
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:30 am

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by prismeclipser » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:47 am

wololo wrote:Mmm, ok, I think I get your points.
300 Credits for one booster is too cheap considering that I don't want to be able to buy one booster after each victory.
I find it strange that people focus on singles. I actually buy more boosters because of the surprise. AND, if there's a card I want from 10E, I know I'll have more chances of getting it in a booster rather than waiting for it to appear in the singles.

@prismeclipser: cards magically disappearing? That's never happened to me. You mean that if you already have 4 cards of, say, "raging goblin" in your collection, and you get one more in a booster, the raging goblin is not added to your collection? I doubt that...

@NyghtcrawleR: if boosters cost 300 Credits, this whole thing wouldn't work:
you pay 300, and you get 1 rare and 3 uncommons, which are an average total of 800 (500 + 3 * 100) + 11 commons for a total of 220 (11*20). So the total of your cards is 1020 credits on average, that you can resell for around half that price, which is 510.
So boosters HAVE to cost a bit more than the average of their resell price, otherwise you would make money by buying boosters :shock:

Does 700 sound like a fair price? It's the price of one rare + 2 uncommons. So you get more than what you paid for, but you can't make money (on average) by reselling it.
:oops: Ah, you're right. I guess I thought I had four Broodmate Dragons and was upset when the "fifth" disappeared. I just pulled up an earlier copy though and I only had 3. (Me? Obsesed with having lots of copies? Never!) Sorry about that.

I think 700 is a fine number to be honest. Much more swingable than 1200.

NyghtcrawleR
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:07 am
Location: Planeswalking

Re: Shop - Suggestions & Ideas

Post by NyghtcrawleR » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:47 am

wololo wrote:Mmm, ok, I think I get your points.
300 Credits for one booster is too cheap considering that I don't want to be able to buy one booster after each victory.
I find it strange that people focus on singles. I actually buy more boosters because of the surprise. AND, if there's a card I want from 10E, I know I'll have more chances of getting it in a booster rather than waiting for it to appear in the singles.

@prismeclipser: cards magically disappearing? That's never happened to me. You mean that if you already have 4 cards of, say, "raging goblin" in your collection, and you get one more in a booster, the raging goblin is not added to your collection? I doubt that...

@NyghtcrawleR: if boosters cost 300 Credits, this whole thing wouldn't work:
you pay 300, and you get 1 rare and 3 uncommons, which are an average total of 800 (500 + 3 * 100) + 11 commons for a total of 220 (11*20). So the total of your cards is 1020 credits on average, that you can resell for around half that price, which is 510.
So boosters HAVE to cost a bit more than the average of their resell price, otherwise you would make money by buying boosters :shock:

Does 700 sound like a fair price? It's the price of one rare + 2 uncommons. So you get more than what you paid for, but you can't make money (on average) by reselling it.
I understand where you are coming from with the resale value but they maybe the place to be fixed. I spent a good number of years playing Magic and in many different shops. I bought boosters, whole boxes and singles.

I agree that you shouldnt be able to resell your cards you bought just to buy more as that doesnt happen in real life, but there are exceptions when you get that really good rare card. That you could turn around for a profit as that is how it should work, but that is not the typical case.

Maybe to have the sytem function more in line with the real game, the boosters should be cheap say like 400-500, but the overal price system for singles should be raised? The system right now is very generous for rare cards and buying them cheaply. Generally its very expensive to get all the cards you want right away in Magic as buying singles puts a hurting on the wallet. Now I understand this is a game and not real life and that should be considered but I think that the price system kind of is backwards in how it should really function. The price for all cards should really go up. Even 20 is too cheap for commons in my opinion and the game would be much more rewarding and challenging if buying singles werent as easy.

Now the other factor that has to be considered if this route is taken is the number of cards in a set currently. I dont know how you have the boosters coded exactly, but if a set is only 80 coded cards and its a 350 card set, maybe the price of those boosters should be more than a normal one until more coded cards are put into place.

Overall I think this would be a much better system for the shop and how players earn cards. Right now, although I'm not complaining :) , I have a ton of rare cards and decks that I have bought but I have considered it pretty easy to get there. If you want more of a challenge in the game, changing the shop around would help. I dont think just lowering the boosters will completely fulfill that if you drop them to 700, lets say. More along how I outlined it would be better imo. Now of course you are the almighty coder and I am the mere suggestion maker, but to make a better game I think changing the shop around is a plus in my book, so take that as you will but at least consider the logic laid out.
"Real Magic" Graphic Mod & Image sets: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=318

Post Reply