Ai blocking/attacking, wasting damagers

All about getting the AI less baka...
muaddib
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Russia

Ai blocking/attacking, wasting damagers

Post by muaddib » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:09 am

edited topic as it became a more appropriate thread discussion...

ittobaal
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:06 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: unhappy ai

Post by ittobaal » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:59 am

*edited by zeth to seem a tad bit nicer*

we can use all your help, if you have an improvement you would like to submit for ai we will gladly review it :mrgreen:

muaddib
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Russia

Re: unhappy ai

Post by muaddib » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:45 am

There was message on facebook, if you are unhappy ai you may post here, I join to this post, I'm unhappy ai.

Zethfox
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: unhappy ai

Post by Zethfox » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:03 am

on face book i personally suggested that if you have improvements for ai, you can submit your improved ai as a patch and we can review it.

as i see it theres 2 things you can do at the moment,
you can wait til we improve the ai, or you can learn C++(if you dont know c++) and help us improve the ai...
unfortunately until one or the other happens theres really nothing we can do to help your probelm.

Yorien
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:59 pm

Re: unhappy ai

Post by Yorien » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:08 pm

Yorien says:
muaddib wrote:I'm unhappy with the ai, it's far from Microprose "Duels of Planeswalkers" AI.
AI had advantage in some games, and if I played instead of AI, I would have won.
Developers do something...
About this... Wagic's AI is waaaaaaaaaaay better than Duels of the Planeswalkers AI. Period.

Now, before people starts immediately complaining, I'll explain why:

Duels of the Planeswalkers has a specific AI build for specific decks and it's sideboards ONLY You play with pre-constructed decks.. In fact, you're only able to make minor changes that keep the playstile of that deck intact. So, for Duels, you have a SPECIFIC AI designated for 75 cards (60 base +15 sideboard). And, most probably, has coded specific procedures for every card in that deck. You have to pay for every DLC to unlock new decks (along with "their IA"). Try to create a deck in Duels for the AI to play with --- ohh, errr, sorry... I forgot you can't ---, and if you could somehow insert a new deck in the Duels, the game would probably crash immediately.

Wagic, on the other hand, deals with the AI in a generic way. While Wagic's AI cannot understand how to deal with a combo deck it has to play with, it can play with ANY deck. Wagic's IA 'knows' the rules, and doesn't mind if it's playing with 2/2 "Grizzly Bears" or with a 1000/1000 trampling, flying,protection from everything "Inglorius Basterd From heck" from the latest expansion... as long as that card looks like a Magic card.

Of course, Wagic's IA is not as advanced as Duels, but Duels knows only to play with 75 cards, while Wagic's IA knows how to deal with 7000+ different cards (and growing). So, while Duels sticks with 75 card IA's, every improvement made in Wagic's IA will help in ALL cards: past, present and future

Zethfox
Posts: 3029
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: unhappy ai

Post by Zethfox » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:24 pm

and the crowd cheer!!!! ROOOOOAAAAR! thank you yorien....hit the nail on the head again!
short version:

DoTP ai is built to only run 75 card decks amazingly....but thats it....
Wagic ai is built to run decks built from a 7613(exact amount of current svn) decently....not amazing...but decent...
yeah...i can also code exact instructions for a deck to follow in wagic...and have ai decks which use those decks 100% perfect....but why? it already uses the whole collection decently....

people talk about duel of the planes walkers like i havent played the game myself....ive played it...its not jaw dropping and amazing as some say...it does just as many stupid moves as wagic does...yet it can only run the precon decks it was coded to run....

and to build your own custom deck, you need to hack the game....even then the max amount of cards you and import that are user created is about 900...900 is NOT greater then 7600...last i checked, tho i might be wrong...i was always bad at math.

wololo
Site Admin
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Location: Japan

Re: unhappy ai

Post by wololo » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:22 am

I believe Duels of the planeswalkers actually uses minmax, which would make it work very fine independently of what cards the engine supports.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/a ... feature/44

That being said, the target of DotP (PC/XBox 360) has roughly 10 times more computing power than the PSP, so we're comparing things that are difficult to compare.

I haven't played DotP myself, but from what I've been said, the AI does not put Wagic's AI to shame, unlike what muaddib says.

Actually, if you look for "Planeswalkers AI" in google, google suggests to look for "Planeswalkers AI bugs" because it sends much more results...

Zethfox
Posts: 3029
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: unhappy ai

Post by Zethfox » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:32 am

the issue is more that there is no hack method for adding any ai decks to it...and if there was there was a certain level of "hints" programmed into those decks that was helped by minmax in it to produce its current ai....it really is not an impressive ai to fight at all...considering all the cards currently in DoTP are very very basic cards...

kevlahnota
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Re: unhappy ai

Post by kevlahnota » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:39 am

Wagic AI is much better I believe than the current AI of DOTP, Ive modded the game (DOTP) and find that the AI is very dependant on card coding. Yes the engine is complex and it includes scoring mode on any action by the player or AI to help it decide what to do, and other stuff but problem is you must have a very good CPU to make it very responsive because it precalculates its move in advance.

Zethfox
Posts: 3029
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: unhappy ai

Post by Zethfox » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:57 am

i noticed that about another minmax game i played a night ago...2 min <----waiting for each Ai move...by the time i finished the match i wanted to shoot myself. and i dont have a very slow comp by any means....guess between DoTP and *name left out for respect to the programmers*....minmax lost all it glory with me...give me hardcoded ai with strict instructions as to what it should do any day.

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