Just my 2 cents: Videogames and Sexism part 1
[Note from Wololo: Given the controversial nature of this topic, let me remind everyone that the opinion of the bloggers here are their own. I am ultimately the one who hits the “publish” button, but that doesn’t mean I fully agree with what the blogger writes. It means however that I think their opinion deserves to be heard. If you disagree with a given article on this site and want to give your own point of view through a post here, get in touch with me via pm on /talk!]
Disclaimer: First of all, I’m not trying to entice any kind of pointless flame wars, nor do I endorse any kind of prejudice (sexism, racism, religion, etc), being in gaming or anywhere else. I’m just here trying to make a point based on what I saw through my life until now and give my 2 cents on its causes and possible solutions. Obviously I’m making some generalizations, because there are every kind of exception for every situation. That being said, enjoy the article, give your opinion, but please keep it clean.
Videogames have come a long way since its popularization in the 70s. As with anything new, it was target of much prejudice, fear and controversy, but I think that there is a crucial difference between videogames and any other media: its interactivity. For that, many tried to link videogames with dysfunctional, antisocial or even aggressive behavior. Even today, getting rid of this kind of prejudice is an ongoing battle (http://www.pbs.org/kcts/videogamerevolution/impact/myths.html).
Back in the 90s when I was growing up, videogames as a secondary hobby between street games (sports, capture the flag and etc) were already quite common, but liking videogames a bit more often meant you ending up being labeled as a ‘nerd’ or a ‘geek’; specially if you liked less mainstream genres like JRPG, city simulations, strategy or puzzle.
If you are reading this here at this blog, you probably understand the magic of videogames. It gives what the mind craves: challenge, learning, problem-solving skills, not to mention imagination, music and much more. From a purely intellectual and individual point of view, street games and sports cannot compete with a videogame. Lets take an example comparing a videogame I played back then, which is SimCity and one of the favorite street pastimes around here, which is Football (Soccer).
On a typical session of SimCity, there is so much to learn and execute. You have to manage resources, read graphs, make projections, fix stuff, manage population, crime, fire, make calculations, control unemployment, transport, fire, crime, contingency, housing costs… I could spend hours just talking about stuff to do and consider. And the game demanded me to do all that in a age that most of children can barely read a graph. It’s a endless challenge for the mind, specially at that age.
While on a soccer match, you have two squares and a ball to pass around, and you have to make the ball go through one of the squares and …. Well, thats about it. Sure it is an oversimplification, as there is some meta game on soccer (although very little on a 10 year-olds match), but from an individual and intellectual point of view, it’s fraction of what a good videogame can provide. Obviously, there are other benefits from sports, like learning teamwork, getting in shape and socializing, which were my reasons to play in the first place, as I had a healthy friendship circle growing up.
But even so, you can see how sports can get boring very quickly and at the same time more intellectually driven activities like reading, videogames, RPGs, and chess get more attractive. But at the same time, society still value classic alpha male attributes (like height, size, strength, speed, etc) and their performance at sports much more, so in a generalization, this ended up creating the socially inept, ostracized, awkward, out of shape, sexually frustrated, unappreciated geek archetype.
Obviously all of that have varying degrees, which can be healthy or not, I’m just exaggerating a bit here to make a point. I myself have always had my geek passions, but also had healthy social life, as I believe that most of geeks have.
So, geek culture in general (comic books, animes, videogames, sci-fi) were more marginalized back then and even more in the decades before, but the thing with geeks is that they are typically more academic inclined, imaginative, passionate about their hobbies and like to get stuff done, so what is happening now is that geek culture is little by little becoming mainstream, as some geeks from the past have now influential careers musicians, movie makers, TV producers, engineers, scientists, videogame developers and so on (http://www.harpercollins.com.au/9781743095683/books/Unnatural-Selection-Why-Geeks-Will-Inherit-Earth-Mark-Roeder/).
Despite all that, geek culture is still a second-class citizen in mainstream culture, often being labeled as being a ‘loser’ and (sexually) undesirable. There are some examples in recent memory. The first one illustrates the contrast between sports (classical males) and e-sports (geek males) approval in society is ESPN broadcasting Dota 2 and League of Legends championships.
While is totally acceptable to broadcast people playing a game with quite simplistic rules, more elaborated and complex games with a lot more meta gaming are not, and also are labelled as “not real” sports (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/espn-esports-league-of-legends-dota) just because its practitioners don’t have traditional socially desirable features. And please don’t get me started on how “healthy” high performance classic sports are, because they aren’t (http://gpsports.com/competitive-sports-bad-health/).
[Edit: Just to make clear, I do not think as sports in general are for “dumb” people as I’m a huge MMA fan myself. The point here is that I think that sports and e-sports are basically the same thing, but treated completely differently]
This move from ESPN had much backlash, and for no particular reason I can see beyond geek hate. All you need is to check the kind of comments that are made about it (http://kotaku.com/some-sports-fans-upset-espn-is-airing-video-game-tourna-1608298005). And I’m only not talking about random people at the internet, I’m also talking about some “professional” journalists too (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/espn-radio-host-slams-competitive-gaming/1100-6426925/). Let me quote Colin Cowherd :
Somebody lock the basement door at mom’s house and don’t let ’em out. I will quit this network if I am ever asked to cover that. I tolerated Donkey Kong. I’ll tell you what that was the equivalent of… of me putting a gun in my mouth and having to listen to that.
As you can see, he doesn’t even have any kind of argument to support that e-sports shouldn’t be broadcast, instead he (as most) try to attack geeks on a personal level with pure unjustified hate just because it’s something he doesn’t understand. At the same time it only shows how ignorant he really is on his own field, since e-sports gathered more viewers than NBA finals (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/05/league-of-legends-popularity-world-series-nba). I just can’t wait and see him shoot his own mouth in the following years.
But the sad part is that if such remarks were made by a ‘professional’ against other groups (like african-americans, gays, LBGT or women), he would probably be already without a job, but since it’s against geeks, then it’s taken very lightly, as it’s already part of mainstream culture to pick on and bully the ‘nerds’.
[Edit: Maybe I didn’t express myself well here. I am not directly comparing here being a geek to being other minorities. I’m just trying to point out that the media treats the exact same statements differently depending on the target group. My point is that hate speech is hate speech regardless of its target, and shouldn’t be taken lightly nonetheless]
I hope you guys have liked this article so far , but this is a complex and controversial subject, so there is still much to talk about. Stay tuned for part 2, as I will (finally) get to talk more about women an sexism itself.
First! Whoo! 😛
It’s like no one learned anything from Revenge of the Nerds
I don’t like where this is going…
Who does.
Although it seems people are too eager to judge without reading the remainder of the article, could you ellaborate?
The current article is already comparing being persecuted for a choice to LGBT issues/racism/sexism, which is incredibly *** up. Your edit reallllly doesn’t do anything to mitigate that. You’re seriously stating in the comments below that being *** and being a geek are both things you genetically do.
Have you seen how mainstream games have gotten? The Skyrim launch was massive and there was a literal tailgating party at my local gamestop. Call of Duty is massive. Matthew Perry gave a copy of Fallout 3 to Ellen DeGeneres on air on her show and was hired by Obsidian to voice Benny over it.
Why are people perceiving you as a geek, specifically? What is it you’re doing that leads to people persecuting you?
First of all, as stated in the article, I myself wasn’t persecuted. Secondly, videogames may be relatively mainstream nowadays, but as you can read on the ESPN-related links, there is still much hate against geeks in general.
Not once I stated that being geek is genetic, nor do I think this is relevant for the discussion. Just because it is not genetic, does it mean that it’s a choice? Also, even if geeks had a choice, it wouldn’t be fair to them to change their tastes to fit society standards, as I believe that *** or any other group also shouldn’t.
Lastly, as I stated on edit, I’m not comparing the groups directly, I’m just pointint out the double standards in press. If anything, I’m criticizing sports press and mainsteam media, not the groups. Please don’t try to turn my article in hate speech.
On a side note, I really think you should read the follow-up 😉
Not genetic? Yes, yes it is a choice. Bringing in a controversial topic using a failed analogy doesn’t look good on you, dude.
The reason there’s sexism in video games is because it was invented by males for males, and was only really played (and still are) by males. We don’t need feminazis like Anita Sarkeesian ruining our industry with her political correctness. You want to make a game yourself that has a female lead? Awesome, do it yourself. Don’t hijack other people’s games/franchises and try to turn them into something they’re not and screw them up as a result.
It’s just that this is a bit of a hot topic, and I personally feel it doesn’t have a place in a blog dedicated to modding video game consoles. One thing I like about this place is that it’s kinda detached from all of that drama that usually circulates around these issues; I don’t really know how to best explain it, but it was sort of like a safe space where I could read up on the latest hacking news without having to wade through the same old -isms you see everywhere. I don’t mean to personally deride you for having an interest in it, but I just don’t believe it belongs here.
I’m interested in what you have to say!
This is all about videogames. Stay Tuned =]
Arthanis, I’ve mentioned it to you in private, and maybe I should have told you earlier (but as I said, I want bloggers to own their thoughts, and not edit every single line that they write), it’s a bit dishonest of my end to just comment here right after I published your article….
But I feel that being a geek is a choice of hobby, while being black or homsexual is not (in general) a choice. As such I think the comparison of these communities in the last section of the article is not really appropriate, these are not things that can be compared that easily.
I also feel that you project some thoughts on sports fans being prejudices, while having pretty strong prejudices on the topic yourself. This lowers the strength of your points IMO.
Just my 2 cents, other than that, can’t wait to read the next parts 🙂
What has happend to ‘we are a news site, we usually don’t publish opinions’ 😉
‘usually’ being the operative word in that sentence..
I had to double check that I haven’t landed on Tumblr by accident.
Is there really, really nothing closer to consoles/handhelds to discuss here that this had to be published, and with even more of the same to come?
It’s not 20 minutes worth of incoherent screams about killing all white cis scum, photos of decapitated male bodies and whining about being opressed. It’s pretty easy to distinguish this place from tumblr.
Wait, they post photos of decapitated male bodies on tumblr now?
Guys, they only post an opinion piece maybe once a month, it’s not a big deal. In this case, it’s multiple Parts, so maybe a bit sooner, but why do you care? It doesn’t effect the output of news, at all.
I also might add that this topic he chose to talk about, agree with the details or not, is super relevant right now in the “real-world” news. People should be aware of it, and talking about it. Part 2 seems like it will go into more detail with that particular element of sexism.
Hey, no problem. Here are my counter-arguments:
– I disagree as being geek as being a choice. At least for me, it is impossible to choose what I like and don’t like.I couldn’t stop liking videogames even if I wanted, I just do. And even if it were a choice, by that argument if a person were, let’s say, african-american and could choose stop being that by choice to better fit in society standards, would it be valid (or fair)? I’m sure you don’t think that, as I don’t think someone should stop being a geek for the same reasons. I also chose these kind of groups to better illustrate the double standard.
– It was not my intention to sound prejudiced against sports people or sports in general. I myself am a huge MMA fan. Thats why I made clear that my arguments are “in a intellectual and individual” point of view, and not in general. Also I tried to elaborate about how much of prejudice against e-sports are based on lack of knowledge and usual higher complexity, as I think that besides that, sports and e-sports are essentially the same thing.
Since when is being *** not a choice? Dont start with the “you are born ***” bullcr@p, because thats not true.
Surely you like what you like, but due to influence and environment you pretty much “decided” to have a normal sexuality or being interested in the same sex.
Here is a decent article on the subject which pretty much contradicts your view: http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-***-not-a-choice.html
Feel free to read the studies it mentions as further evidence to contradict your ignorant opinion.
Agree!…at the end you have to decide…impossible to say there is no choice.
Good post by the way.
are you sure being a geek is a choice wololo? because it never felt that way to me.
My thoughts exactly =]
Wait… where exactly in this article is he talking about sexism at all?
Its an introduction. The next part will approach that more concisely.
Lol at you seriously using “african american” in a “serious matter”.
What happened to the good old “black”?
White people decided that calling black people black was offensive, and they taught a bunch of African studies majors to think the same way, so they tried calling them African American, but that confused newscasters when they were talking about blacks who weren’t from the US.
African American can also be used to describe white immigrants from Africa, which boggles minds.
So now the hip thing to call them is People of Color, which is great, because it’s almost calling them Colored People again. Soon we’ll shorten People of Color to just Colored, at which point we’ll have come full circle.
We’ll get back to black when the African studies majors realize that all people have colors – they should figure that out by 2025.
I’m not American, thus “african AMERICAN” is offensive to me. Well it’s not as I’m not an offendatron, it’s just ridiculous and meaningless. And what about the blacks that are not from Africa? Really, this terms reeks of American ignorance.
People of Color is racist no matter how you turn it, and it does not mean “black”, it just lumps very different people together.
Sorry, but as I’m not a native speaker, I couldn’t think on another more harmless term. Feel free to make a suggestion =]
This. Also, as I am not a native speaker, I took extra care to make it not sound like some racial slur or something. I Hope I didn’t.
It’s like how it used to be considered racist to think people of different “races” should be thought of as different or treated differently, and now it’s considered racist if you don’t think races are different and should be treated differently.
Oh come on! Why is there such an article here? :'(
I’ve already had my share in Game Design class at my school. T_T
I don’t like where this is going either. Please don’t go Anita Sarkeesian style, write something decent, I beg you.
I’m not trying to take any sides, just trying to point some arguments that I feel are often left out from this kind of discussion. I hope you read the follow up.
https://www.reboot.ms/forum/threads/smea-nuovo-exploit-su-3ds-senza-cartuccia-ma.456/
Why you don’t write an article?
I can already see where this is going when you use biased sources such as PBS, Kotaku and Gamespot.
Keep this tumblr garbage off of Wololo.net.
The sources are not biased, since I used them just to show some information, not opinions from them. Also, where do you think this is going?
well said! 😀
I really agree that this is a serious problem, in the same way you do Wololo. But as part of another culture (too), I can say that some “geeks”/”nerds” attack other people without a motive as well.
Just a example: having a “different” nickname on PSN or XboxLive, it’s a motive for them to mock you, chase you in online competitive games, and send you threatening messages. I received some, and this make me hate some players with same gaming caracteristics, like FPS players, sports game players, etc. I think all the cultures have 2 sides of a coin, and this coin is always shown for the bad attitude of a few group of that culture.
The world need to change.
It sure does. I really hope you read the follow up, as I approach this.
For reference I did not write the article, not sure if this is what you implied when you said “same way as you do wololo”
Goodluck with the critics as well as the future leaks 🙁
Enjoy the ride and see you on https://archive.is/IjPcg
Au revoir SJWololo.
I think you misinterpreted the article if you think wololo is going social justice ***. He’s on our side
Yeah, I’m not sure I understand what this is about.
For what it’s worth, I did not write the article, and I personally proactively stay away from any piece of news related to gamergate. I have a general idea of what’s going on, but I do not understand the reference to “leaks” here.
First off, while i agree with free choice and all, and your right to publish what you please yadda yadda, this sort of topic shouldn’t be here. This is (was?) mostly a hacking and hardware related site, there’s been a few articles that weren’t, but they were mostly about video games so that’s fine.
Topics like these are garbage. I’m sorry, but just because everyone else makes these dumb ‘VIDYA GAIM GURLS HAVE DEFINED GURLY PARTZ’ doesn’t mean you have to; There’s plenty of other terrible websites where you can get your fill of the tired BS that is video game sexism, please don’t ruin this one with it.
Video game sexism is a bunch of ***. Women have these parts, people. The fact that a NON-EXISTANT and or NOT REAL character has overly defined curves and parts shouldn’t matter. Look at hollywood. They promote insane unrealistic bodies all the time. Look at friggin Barbie for christ sake. This has been going on for years, keep your terrible garbage out of our video games.
The fact is, video games are a form of art. Been said a thousand times, but it bears repeating. The magic of art is that the artist has full creative control in making what he sees in his mind a reality. When you effing impose stupid *** like ‘oh her chest is too big’ or whatever other garbage the damn tumblrs *** and moan about, you’re destroying the creativity. You’re forcing them to limit their minds and what they have for an image because OH MAN GOTTA MAKE SURE I DON’T ANGER DEM TUMBLRS.
You see constantly OH MAN THIS *video game character* IS HYPERSEXUALIZED, yet when you glance at games like Bulletstorm or Devil May Cry, nope. That’s fine, he’s not a woman.
The bottom line, if you wanna look past all that and still try and defend things, is that sexualism sells. When someone posts about *game* being too sexual, they’re on the same damn end as the *game* that made it because they’re using sexuality to make money. ‘Are video games too sexual?’ ‘women in video games’, it’s the same *** under a different name, people are making money off you based off sexual *** (via ads and clicks in this case).
Please, don’t write articles like this, and for those of you who think there’s something wrong with a woman having defined sexual characteristics, you need to look around you and realize that it extends far beyond video games. Video games have come under fire since conception, they don’t need more retards adding fuel to that fire. Go b1tch to hollywood, or better yet, grow a pair and understand what the word ‘creativity’ means. (Protip: It doesn’t mean cater to people who have pack mentalities based off things they only believe is ‘morally unjust’ because it gets them attention.)
I REALLY think you should read part 2 😉
Sorry, came off pretty abrasive, i just really disagree and heartily dislike the current state of society. Makes me a bit uppity sometimes, most of this wasn’t directed at you so much as everything like this in general.
You think anyone “b1tching” about sexism in media should “grow a pair”…
May I thank you for demonstrating, in a single comment, precisely the sexist attitude & behavior you’re claiming is not a problem?
Am I blind or wololo just doesn’t know what sexism is? It’s just better to make two separate articles because I just don’t see any correlation between subjects (except that geeks are being bullied and that somehow translates into women being bullied as well because… no idea).
It wasn’t wololo who wrote that, it was me, Arthanis. Also, I will get to the point in the next part. I hope you read it =]
Yes, you are blind. Its not even Wololo who wrote the article.
+1 on the possibility of you being blind, I did not write this article. Also this is only part 1. Part 2 dives into the actual subject.
Nice, well written and with source.
Where is part 2
I was never given a choice of being a nerd or not. And I just want to say I’ve faced more discrimination in the past year for being a ganer thanks to Anita Scamseesian and her allies, than I have my entire life for being a member of the LGBT club.
First of all, kudos for having the courage to publish an article on this particular subject on a site of this nature. Judging by the disappointed reactions from those lamenting they could no longer take refuge from a cultural shift while they’re *on this site*, I think you couldn’t have made a more appropriate choice to explore the subject right now, right here. Thank you for doing this.
The notion of “nerds as an oppressed group” seems strange to me, personally. I’ve never attributed the negative “nerdy weirdo” stereotypes in pop culture to being nerdy per se — those characters are not mocked because they play video games, or chess, or whatever. Rather, they are mocked because they have no social skills. They are mocked because they are unattractive.
Their nerdiness is the white lie people tell themselves and other people when a reason for their hatred is requested. But that’s never the real reason. Calling someone a “nerd” sounds less hurtful than “weirdo”, doesn’t it?
Thanks for the support. That’s a great point, although I don’t completely agree. But next I will approach this attractiveness factor more deeply. I hope you read it =]
wrt your first paragraph, shoving this stuff in other people’s faces and forcing them to think the same way is the main reason I want this political stuff gone. It doesn’t work, and does nothing but stir up controversy wherever it’s brought. For the love of all that is good in the world, don’t let this spread to Wololo.
Sorry, but I’m not trying to force anything on anyone. Just showing some points I feel gets often overlooked.