Mono on PS4, Not on XBOX One, the Irony

So, made quite an ironic discovery, the mono team, responsible for making the .NET framework available on most devices and for bringing out its potential with things like Mono.Simd (hardware accelerated vector math) and Monogame, an open source port of the now abandoned XNA Framework has recently announced that they will also be bringing the framework to the PlayStation 4, the ironic part is that the .NET Framework is the most requested feature for the Xbox One and there are no details about whether it will be ported and considering that the .NET Framework is Microsoft’s baby and PlayStation is their direct competitor, it’s just sad (for Microsoft)

So far, this is only for PS4 developers so unlike PSM, the PS4 port will have access to the full power of the platform.

Mono is an open source implementation of the .NET framework which unleashes the full potential of the VM based language design. Simply speaking, something made in a .NET language that doesn’t rely on platform dependent code can be run on any platform that the Mono/.NET framework works on.

In its early days Mono was quite behind .NET in almost everything, the .NET framework was much faster and had many more features than Mono, however recently Mono started catching up and .NET eventually fell behind. Today Mono is much more useful than .NET; the framework currently supports about 14 platforms compared to the 4-5 by .NET.

The platforms supported by Mono are

  • Windows
  • Linux
  • Mac OSX
  • Sun Solaris
  • BSD
  • Nintendo Wii
  • Nintendo Wii U
  • PlayStation 3
  • PlayStation Vita
  • PlayStation 4
  • Android
  • iOS
  • Windows 8
  • Windows Phone 8
  • OUYA (android)

whereas the platforms supported by .NET are

  • Windows
  • Windows CE devices (like Windows Phone)
  • .NET Micro for severely restricted devices
  • Windows 8
  • Xbox 360 (abandoned)

 

Note that .NET is limited to Microsoft devices.

The fact that Mono is being ported to PS4 should hopefully better the platforms reputation for game development as the common belief is that you can only make a good game in native C/C++ (with which I completely disagree).

 

So, what do you guys think? Has Microsoft completely abandoned .NET? Will they bring it to the Xbox One? Do you think this Mono port will increase the number of developers (especially indies) interested in the platform?

 

Source: http://www.monogame.net/news/2013/10/14/monogame-playstation-4-works

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  1. F!RST!!!’s avatar

    F I R S T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    YES!

    Reply

    1. jake’s avatar

      Want a cookie?

      Reply

    2. BlazingHaze74’s avatar

      What is with people commenting first this days?

      Reply

      1. zorak_torok’s avatar

        Always has been this way on here…. kinda like a signature for this blog :->

        Reply

  2. Ninjakakashi’s avatar

    Honestly I don’t know. 4th !!!!!!!!!

    I think this will obviously make a good impact if my facts are right… If c/c++ is the main language which I am pretty sure it is then a lot of people would want to use that rather than learn a new language also I hear programming is hard and the c/c++ is just one of the easier languages that has become universal.

    I might be totally wrong because I have never done programming:P

    Reply

    1. UnknowablE’s avatar

      Easier language… hmmm in some ways… easy to learn hard to master springs to mind.
      C++ is a fairly low level object orientated language which gives it as huge amount of power when compared to various other languages and an insane amount of flexibility to optimize and have a lot of control over your project while making bug fixing much less obtuse than it can be otherwise.

      Reply

  3. Pablo’s avatar

    Saying that .net Framework has fallen behind Mono is biased and uninformed.
    .Net is an Enterprise class Framework that excels in Business environments in which Mono is totally irrelevant.
    There are still many features from the framework that mono doesn’t have at all, or whose support is partial.
    The only thing were Mono excels is in gaming and mostly due to the lack of interest shown by MS with XNA.
    So please, get your facts right and inform yourself a little bit about what the .NET Framework really is before talking.

    Reply

    1. Idiot Comment’s avatar

      Idiot commentay!!! Totally unusefull…

      Reply

      1. Pablo’s avatar

        Is not an idiot comment to say that the entire post is totally biased and full of mistakes, getting to the point of saying that Mono is much more useful that .NET.
        If you want to be taken seriously, you have to get your facts right.
        If you want to say XNA, do not say .NET framework !

        Reply

        1. hgoel0974’s avatar

          ‘If you want to say XNA, do not say .NET framework !’
          Really? Have you noticed that Mono is NOT an open source version of XNA? Also, have you noticed that XNA/MonoGame (which is the Mono port of XNA) run ON the .NET/Mono platforms respectively? So really I think you need to get your facts straight first.

          Reply

          1. Pablo’s avatar

            Of course is not the same thing !

            I know that pretty well, but the only thing in which Mono is actually ahead is that specific one.

            You could have said that Microsoft has lagged behind because of its lack of support of XNA and how Mono has managed to cover that niche with MonoGame, instead of that u went and said that .NET is lagging behind Mono !

    2. Darkova’s avatar

      Can this please become an epic forum bro-down. I want to see violence in the shape of words slitting throats and raping. But please try to keep it mature and leave out words like “poop” or phrases like “your mom.” I want to have the satisfaction of a more intellectual violent forum bro-down.

      Reply

      1. Darkova’s avatar

        I guess this would be more like a blog bro-down…

        Reply

        1. wololo’s avatar

          Yeah, Id like to see that too :p

          Reply

    3. k3nn’s avatar

      @pablo – well the content didn’t say anything about enterprise, and even if it did, it wouldn’t be totally irrelevant…the only other multiplatform enterprise i can think of is Java. I think Mono is quite good for porting .Net to other environments since .Net is concentrating on Windows only. the topic is about Mono (.Net) on PS4 and the irony of it since M$ owns .Net i.e, why is it not on XB one environment? i guess you have to stay on the topic too and not murk it

      Reply

      1. Dmaskell92’s avatar

        @STFU this isn’t Twitter…

        Reply

        1. k3nn’s avatar

          dude, you don’t have a valid argument. that pretty much sucks.

          Reply

    4. hgoel0974’s avatar

      Can you describe atleast one thing that is in .NET but not in Mono? Sorry for my ignorance but I really couldn’t find anything about what you’re saying.

      Even google doesn’t show any significant differences. Also, can you explain how .Net excels in business environments? Just because it’s a Microsoft product and Mono is an open source implementation? If so, that’s like saying that windows is better than linux because linux is a hobbyists/open source OS whereas Windows is from a big company.

      In fact, there are so many things that have been requested for in .NET which have been ignored by MS but implemented in Mono. For instance, SIMD support, and SIMD isn’t gaming specific, you mention Business environments, I assume that you mean things like data processing, graphing etc, wouldn’t things like SIMD be a very useful asset for them too?

      So first find an important difference between the two that makes .NET ‘an enterprise class framework that excels in business environments’.

      Reply

      1. Pablo’s avatar

        http://www.mono-project.com/Compatibility

        - Async is still not fully suported
        - WCF is still not on par with .NET
        - Portable libraries support inside Xamarin still painful
        - WWF missing in action

        And most important of all, everything but gaming gets developed first for .NET then for Mono. Otherwise that compatibility webpage would not even exists, something gets developed for .NET then u have to wait for it being implemented in Mono, if ever happens…

        Is not because is a Microsoft product, is because is a hell of a lot more productive. Can you do similar solutions working in Mono? probably, can you do them as fast as with .NET? no. What about all the tools and assets already developed for .NET?, is about productivity.

        I am in the enterprise development business and we are right now starting to consider Mono for specific scenarios in which portability to several platforms is important but, besides that, we will not consider developing something like a complex backend application in Mono for a big client. Given the choice we would always go the .NET way due to support, level of polishment and tooling.

        You cannot afford in an enterprise environment to rely on a half cooked implementation of something, you go with the one you know it works and it has been thoroughly tested.

        And yeah, microsoft did looots of screw ups and there are lots of things about the .net framework that should have been handled differently… but there is a long way from that to saying that right now Mono is superior.

        Reply

        1. hgoel0974’s avatar

          So, you already have tools which use .NET 4.5 ? :/
          and as for WCF, in the mono world, GTK# is the way to go and I believe there are some of those legal risks (like the ones that were associated with winforms) for bringing WCF to Mono

          Reply

        2. hgoel0974’s avatar

          Oh and note the “limited ASP.NET 4.5 async stack.”, so first of all it’s specifically the .NET 4.5 Async stack and even more specifically it’s about ASP.NET oh and ignore the “you already have tools which use .NET 4.5 ?” I mixed up 4.5 with 4.5.1

          Oh, and just to be clear, this is just a discussion, we’re not flaming each other (right? :) )

          Reply

  4. rubnvdub’s avatar

    This post is very bias as stated above. not to mention who really gives a shit. This page has become nothing but a sony fanboy page about the new consoles and how Sony supposedly surpasses Microsoft new console when quite literally they are virtually the same hardware and also almost identical in capabilities. However you have trolls all over who claim the ps4 is the end all be all console. Quite frankly most of these claims stem from uneducated ppl who see something as minor as this and post things without even knowing what the hell they are talking about. are Sony kids really that insecure that they need to nit pick every stupid detail about the differences. Its becoming petty at this point.

    Get your facts straight, know what your talking about and give it up already both consoles are equally powerful and great machines that will hold the market as the best home consoles on the market. Whoever takes lead in sales will fluctuate over time and the difference will be a minor spread.

    Reply

    1. Dockotis’s avatar

      @rubnvdub,
      The statements of “PS4 better than XBOXOne” comes more from the specs, the company (M$ trying to implement an overly-aggressive DRM and $$$ making tactic) the fact that Sony has been trying as of late to get good with indie devs. So, honestly its not fanboys if even M$ fanboys are complimenting Sony as well. The reason why some of them don’t switch is because they are too invested in M$ and are still M$ fanboys.
      But to say this post is biased is a “WTF?!” when its a legit event. If M$ gave .NET support in XBOXOne, this post would have probbly been a comparison of Mono and .NET for PS4 and XBOXOne respectively.

      Oh, and here is a little tidbit of info: I won’t buy either of them nor care to at the moment.

      Also, you typed “something as minor as this” in reference to this articles content on Mono. It may be minor to you, but to Developers it can be a big thing. That in itself could be the deciding factor for a Dev whether they would make game for XBOXOne or PS4.

      You, sir, sound like a raging M$ fanboy who at the end of your comment in a totally different paragraph) tries to cover your tracks… With that I give you this in the voice of Obiwan Kenobi: “may the butthurt be with you always”

      (Disclaimer: I am neither a Sony or Microsoft fanboy. just relaying info)

      Reply

  5. titegtnodI’s avatar

    That is ironic. I still don’t like Mono or .NET though. I rarely see anything good come out of them.

    Reply

  6. Chuckthetekkie’s avatar

    I was writing programs for Windows until .Net came out and everything I knew was completely changed so I switched to a multi-platform compiler so I could write for Windows and Mac and I didn’t have to abandon what I already knew.

    Being a Mac user, I use the Mono framework to run several Windows only apps and games through CrossOver.

    Reply

  7. BeastyX’s avatar

    Maybe If Microsoft Would Quit Milking The Cash Cow And Actually Give More To The Gamers That Support It As Well As The Developers They Wouldn’t Be In A Shit Hole They Are Gonna Sell Both Consoles Regardless But Unless MS Starts Changing Some Policies Your Gonna End Up With The Xbox360HD Cause I’m Still Not Impressed With The Way They’ve Fumbled with The Announcing Of The XboxOne Sony Seemed Like Such Veterans And It Seemed As If Microsoft Made Rookie Mistake After Rookie Mistake I May Not Be Able To Get A Ps4 At Launch But I Know In The Future Where My Hand Lies

    Reply

  8. Yifan Lu’s avatar

    I wonder if they know that Sony is testing PSM on PS4…

    Reply

    1. hgoel0974’s avatar

      Really? Weren’t they just rumors? and either way, then the Mono team wouldn’t be talking about it, apparently the PSV port was done by Sony and not by Mono.

      Reply

      1. Yifan Lu’s avatar

        Go take a look at the gpl source code.

        Reply

  9. catfungus’s avatar

    Who Seriously Capitalises The First Letter Of Every Word? I Believe It Makes Me Sound Unstable And Incoherent, But How Can I Be Sure?

    This Is A Real Pain In The Arse But If I Was Trying To Make A Point Badly, I Would Feel Like I Was Imparting More Of My Fractured Grasp Of Written Language With Each Word Capitalised In This Way.

    Reply

  10. Timothy’s avatar

    Sorry, the fact that every Xbox One console in the world can be the same as every Xbox One AAA Development kit and the fact that every developer in the world gets dedicated servers and cloud compute is a lot better.

    Who cares about Mono game development. Nobody gives a crap about Mono or .NET anymore. It’s done! It’s over!

    Reply

    1. hgoel0974’s avatar

      Tell that to the Mono team ;) Tell that to the PSM team, tell that to every single C#/VB/F#/IronPython/whatever (too many to list) programmer out there, hell go tell that to ANY programmer out there, even if they don’t particularly like C#/.NET/Mono they won’t say “it’s dead”. Oh and not to mention, tell that to the GNOME team and to a LOT of the websites on the internet, you’ll see just how dead .NET or Mono is and how much it is used ;)

      Reply

  11. xxx’s avatar

    Just because a game system has better numbers on paper doesn’t mean it will be better.. Get off the PS wanna be high horse.

    Every PS japaname kiddie on the net HAS to mention XBOXONE yet no xbox people say jack about the competitor… because they don’t care about it.

    Get over your self and get off the PS wanna be high horse people.

    Reply

  12. xxx’s avatar

    Another PS fanboy trying to find a reason why PS4 might be better then an Xbox one just so they can diss Xbox??? Really???

    What are you trying to accomplish?? Are you afraid Xbox might be better this time?? Are you trying to convince yourself it will not be?? Are you trying to WILL it into existence?

    Reply

    1. hgoel0974’s avatar

      All I said was that it’s ironic that even though MS developed the .NET framework, the PS4, which you have to admit is the XBOX One’s competitor, is getting it first based on current information.

      Your post just makes you sound like a primarily XBOX user who is somewhat insecure about which console will do better because there is absolutely no mention of how this makes the PS4 sell better than the XBOX One (although it will affect how indies decide which platforms they wish to target)

      Reply

  13. arsh’s avatar

    If you want to talk irony, how about the fact that MONO (which means one) is not on the xbox ONE

    Reply

    1. hgoel0974’s avatar

      lmao, didn’t notice that one but nice observation! :D

      Reply

  14. psYos’s avatar

    Next we’re going to hear that the PS4 will be dual booting windows 9 whereas the XBOX One will be running windows 3.1 :P

    Reply

  15. Frankagrams’s avatar

    Has Microsoft completely abandoned .NET?

    No, this is a dumb question to be honest. .NET is a real successor from Microsoft. Alot of big company’s use the .NET framework for their businesses (including myself). The .NET framework is getting constantly worked on and with Visual Studio 2013 around the corner its safe to say that the .NET framework is here to stay.
    Also the Mono framework is still not a replacement on enterprise. Mono still only supports .NET 2.0 so that’s far behind. Now at things like mobile development is where Mono shines. Xamarin is really a mature development framework and i wont hassle to recommend it. ;)

    Reply

    1. hgoel0974’s avatar

      .NET 2.0? Where’d you get that information :O It goes up till .NET 4.0
      well, everyone makes mistakes :P

      Reply

      1. Frankagrams’s avatar

        Sorry i ment ASP.NET 2.0 ;) (with some 3.5 controls) src: http://www.mono-project.com/ASP.NET

        Reply

  16. Ryan’s avatar

    Abaondoned .Net? Hardly.

    Game development is just one piece of the puzzle. .Net is the basis of ASP.Net, of which there is an entire Web Content Management Enterprise built on (Microsoft SharePoint), which imo, is Microsoft’s Bread and Butter. SharePoint is the #1 go to web content system for Associations, some corporations, and non profits. I know consulting companies with 700+ sharepoint clients. There are 10′s of thousands (or more) people who do nothing but develop on sharepoint for a living.

    And that’s just 1 product.

    Let’s not forget about Windows Azure either, which supports sharepoint, office, .net development etc etc.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying mono is bad, not at all. I love what mono is doing, and this is the first I’ve heard of Monogame so I’m pretty excited about that. Think I might take a stab at making some indy games now.

    And really, all we need to happen to seal the deal is get Google to implement mono-mod on Google App Engine, if Google did that not only would it give them a HUGE in the cloud leg up, but .net Developers would flock to it in droves.

    Reply

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